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Learn Code Lab
codelabtrains, and buses can be provided as notifications, allowing easy retrieval when checking in by configuring server synchronization, updates to journey information such as gate changes, schedule changes, or cancellations can be received by the users ticket notifications about events and additional information, including benefits, can be provided based on real-time utilization of performances, sports games, movies, and admission tickets, status updates related to expiration and availability can be provided gift card gift card, also referred to as a prepaid card, provides real-time balance and transaction history loyalty loyalty cards function as membership credentials, managing membership information through these cards, loyalty points can be administered and redeemed id id cards can fulfill identification verification purposes, such as identity cards, employee cards, and licenses physical documents can be represented through wallet cards, and near field communication nfc -based authentication can be provided reservation reservation cards can contain diverse online booking details, including rental cars, restaurants, and accommodations ongoing reservation information can be managed as a journey pay as you go pay as you go cards allow users to register services that can be charged and utilized according to their preference for convenient use generic card generic cards enable users to create customized cards by selecting preferred card template layouts and designing elements notedepending on your country or region, some card types are not supported if you need assistance, please contact us at developer samsung com/dashboard/support the image below shows the process of managing wallet cards for more information, refer to manage wallet cards set up your environment you will need the following latest version of samsung wallet app from galaxy store samsung galaxy device that supports samsung wallet access to samsung wallet partners site internet browser, such as chrome openssl intellij idea or any java ide optional start the onboarding process partners can manage wallet cards and monitor performance with the samsung wallet partners site to join as partner generate a private key and certificate signing request csr using the openssl command you can follow the instructions in security factors notea private key enables encryption and is the most important component of certificates while csr, which is a necessary factor to obtain a signed certificate, includes the public key and additional information like organization and country proceed to register in the samsung wallet partners site using your samsung account follow the samsung wallet partner onboarding process upload the generated csr for data encryption in encryption setting management section after registration, you will receive a welcome email noteupon receiving the certificates via email, be sure to keep the information safe from exposure and only use them for the following purposes signed certificate used along with the private key to sign data samsung certificate used to encrypt card data and validate authentication tokens in server api headers create a wallet card follow the steps below to create a wallet card in samsung wallet partners site click the wallet cards menu and choose create wallet card fill out the general information form with the details of the wallet card in wallet card template, choose a card type and sub type select the design type and click done you can choose from various types of wallet card templates optimized for partners after inputting all necessary details, click save to set the wallet card status to draft launch the wallet card you can launch and request activation of the card by clicking the launch button upon agreeing to proceed, the launch button text changes to launched and the card status becomes verifying add the card to samsung wallet using the test tool open a web browser on your computer or galaxy mobile device, and go to the following link partner walletsvc samsung com/addtowallettest go to add to wallet tab and click choose key file to upload your private key in the select card dropdown menu, select the created card to display the card details and populate sample data navigate to the form tab and modify the card data as desired notethe structure for configuring wallet cards follows the defined specification you can refer to the full list of card-specific attributes specification scroll down to the bottom of the page and click the add to samsung wallet button click done when a preview of the card shows on your mobile screen with a message indicating that the card has been added to your wallet once the card is added to your samsung wallet app, you can check its details by clicking on it noteyou can also go to the playground tab and add cards to the samsung wallet app even without creating a card on the wallet partners site update the status of the added card if a server api info partner get card data and partner send card state is registered in the wallet card, real-time updates of the user's registered cards can be provided notefor more information, see server interaction modify and update the card's status by utilizing the push notification feature of the test tool navigate to the push notification tab ensure that the correct private key is uploaded and the same card as in the add to wallet tab is selected copy the ref id value from the add to wallet tab and paste it into ref id field in the push notification tab in the status field, enter one of the following card states expired, redeemed, held, suspended, or deleted the current state is set to active then, click the request push notification button check the card in the samsung wallet app to confirm the change tokenize card data and implement the add to samsung wallet button to your service optional notethis step is optional, but if you want to learn how to integrate the add to samsung wallet button into your services like an android app, web app, or email, you can follow these steps the samsung wallet partners site provides generated add to samsung wallet scripts for each wallet card you create you can simply copy and paste these scripts into your partner apps web and android or include them in emails/mms messages to implement the add to wallet button, follow these steps go to the [add to wallet script guide] section of the card you created click show to view the available scripts and then copy the appropriate script for your service develop a program that can generate tokenized card data cdata the cdata represents the actual content of the wallet card and comes in different formats depending on the card type you can check the cdata generation sample code for reference the cdata is derived from the card data, which is in json format for testing purposes, you can utilize the generated json from the test tool follow the implementing atw button guide to determine where to incorporate the generated cdata and gain further insights into this process you're done! congratulations! you have successfully achieved the goal of this code lab topic now, you can utilize the add to samsung wallet service by yourself! to learn more about samsung wallet, visit developer samsung com/wallet
Learn Developers Podcast
docseason 1, episode 5 previous episode | episode index | next episode this is a transcript of one episode of the samsung developers podcast, hosted by and produced by tony morelan a listing of all podcast transcripts can be found here host tony morelan senior developer evangelist, samsung developers instagram - twitter - linkedin guests aurelien lavaud global associate director of business development, gameloft / asphalt 9 linkedin david bitton, senior global account manager, samsung linkedin in this episode of pow, special guest host david bitton, senior global account manager at samsung, interviews aurelien lavaud, global associate director of business development at gameloft david and aurelien not only talk about the amazing success of the asphalt franchise racing game, but also the partnership between samsung, gameloft and the vivendi group, the global entertainment and media company that owns gameloft listen download this episode topics covered gameloft history samsung partnership the vivendi group asphalt 9 licensing best of galaxy store awards 2019 more about gameloft & asphalt 9 gameloft is a french video game publisher based in paris the company operates 19 development studios worldwide, and publishes games with a special focus on the mobile games market try asphalt 9 for a spin on your samsung device! go to galaxy store to download, drive your favorite hyper-car and become a racing legend today! helpful links gameloft com asphaltlegends com facebook content creators transcript note transcripts are provided by an automated service and reviewed by the samsung developers web team inaccuracies from the transcription process do occur, so please refer to the audio if you are in doubt about the transcript tony morelan 00 02 hey, i'm tony morelan and this is pow! podcast of wisdom from the samsung developer program, where we talk about the latest tech new trends and give insight into all the opportunities available for developers looking to create for samsung on today's show, we're doing something a little different our interview is with gameloft, the french gaming company that won the 2019 best of galaxy store award for best racing game asphalt 9 david bitton, senior global account manager at samsung sat in as a guest host to chat with aurelien lavaud, global associate director of business development at gameloft david and aurelien not only talk about the amazing success of the asphalt franchise, but also the partnership between samsung, gameloft and the vendee group, the global entertainment and media company that owns gameloft and what else is unique about this interview, both david and aurelien are originally from france, but david currently lives in korea and aurelien lives in vietnam and the music that you're going to hear in this podcast? well that's all the official music from the soundtrack from asphalt 9 enjoy david bitton 01 12 hello, welcome to this session so i'm david bitton, senior business development manager at samsung and based in korea today i'm very excited to have a volunteer from gameloft, the game company behind the asphalt franchise so olivia, welcome hello, david, aurelien lavaud 01 31 how are you? david bitton 01 32 good thank you let me start by asking a basic question who is okay yeah aurelien lavaud 01 38 level i'm already a level global by director of business development gambler so my daily routine consists in creating and deploying public partnerships with manufacturers all around the world and what i love in this in this job is such gives me the chance to be at the front line of innovation, discovering new technological trends that i can then use to provide insight to a developer on teams and improve, keep improving your games so i also used to be on vr on the sides two years ago, you aflac i took part in the development of some iconic titles, such as the revamped versions of snake or tea trees so i try to always have this double heart with the understanding of technical feasibility within the business model, the business directions we want to implement on a more personal level, i'm fortunate to be based in vietnam, in southeast asia, very beautiful new age, and i will i highly recommend to visit if you're into hiking, or kayaking me to an amazing wildlife so that's what i'm trying to do enjoy as much as i can on my feet hi david bitton 02 48 yeah, that sounds exciting, especially because i'm based in korea so that's not that that's far so yeah, that could be a great a great opportunity can you talk a little bit more about the history of gameloft? aurelien lavaud 03 04 certainly so gamma was created in 2000, with a patient for games and the desire to bring them to even more pay on the war by bringing the wonders of games to mobile devices, we have creating a one new market that became 20 years later, the biggest market in gaming so what we did over the years was shipping companies to be able to deliver this vision and today we are 4600 employees, over 17 developers to throw the war and where people are working hard to bring new games to a wide range of devices with ad hoc or patient david bitton 03 46 that that's great you said that you have 17 development studios around the world so that's quite big, more than 4000 employees and you also have a very large game portfolio so, again last is it like the more games, the better? aurelien lavaud 04 04 well, i talk all we want everyone to play and we believe there's a different game for everyone so no matter the device, language, the region or the general, we try to make it available so having a very powerful you come with logic and we provide for brain wide range of different experiences for a wide range of people preferences david bitton 04 30 okay just to dive a little bit more into your, into this samsung partnership out of curiosity, how long have you been working with samsung as a partner? and how did that start? because i guess, from what i know, that's, that's quite a long-time partnership here that we are talking about aurelien lavaud 04 51 yes, we have been working with them for more than 15 years wow so we started on the feature phones at the time java devices were king dennis pink starting to pick up on truth 2010 with project on the first something series, and we had the asphalt wcag series that we signed that was memorable, made a lot of noise and later on in 2019, we are refreshed and we started our collaboration with another big name game of catalog with yes one nine on the galaxy app store that was off a long list of games coming david bitton 05 34 as we as we know game lost is also a part of the of the vivendi group which is a global entertainment and media company so how do you see opportunities and synergies not only internally within your different business units and sister companies but also externally with your partnership with samsung aurelien lavaud 05 59 we have already been developing great synergies, especially with kind of priests we developed by putting on a run and we walked into with universal music on the fallout by integrating in as well i, i see on some of the older partnerships like disney, we were working with them before prior to the acquisition david bitton 06 20 and speaking of these of these games, you mentioned that disney for example what are the games currently included in the in the partnership does the first question and second question for you would be what were the criteria to include them in the in the partnership? aurelien lavaud 06 39 usually we started with asphalt 9 games it was perfect timing because we are now celebrating the 15th birthday of our series happy birthday thank you so i will introduce later you can reach asphalt 9 facebook page or we also have a dedicated website as www asphalt9 com where you can discover everything about just full series along these 15 years and you can enjoy some, some gift that can take part to some to some get involved into the hype game and david bitton 07 23 i will certainly do that yeah, aurelien lavaud 07 24 thank you for furthering the discussion after asphalt nine we started working on dragon manual agents together at disney magic kingdom and legally it wasn't necessary great now we are also working on some stuff too and we are planning to release in next month on the samsung galaxy app store david bitton 07 46 great, great so more and more games are coming but if we if we want to get a little bit more specifics on the asphalt 9 because there was a second of the aurelien lavaud 07 58 game here asphalt 9 offers like a fully licensed cars so initially how much time did it take for us for asphalt nine to team to convince the most prestigious brands to join the game to create enough momentum to stop the engine? no pun intended so yeah, we've been working with car manufacturer for more than 15 years now so the process was asphalt nine was actually quite smooth, because we had already a lot of a lot of partners on board what happened is that we present into game to twitch partner and we are all very excited to be part of the adventure so we got already all most of most of all, car manufacturers david bitton 08 48 some early discussion to launching a model from a new car manufacturer earlier, how long does it usually take to incorporate this discard into the into the game aurelien lavaud 09 00 while dvd it will already depend licensor for the partners we already work with, it's pretty fast, it's a human but on the partner we want the new partners that we want to integrate into games to work with us we need to pitch the game first and then create some legal contracts and we are more on we own a few months up to one year david bitton 09 29 and now that asphault nine is celebrating its 15th birthday so that's kind of nice teenager and is getting also more popular do car manufacturers also promote a sold night in their own channels? aurelien lavaud 09 45 yeah, i put is a very interesting that they do we recently launched into the coming season and license or use these two promos, every kid on their social network oh great great on top of that, with longtime relationship with bree to them we are often walking in close partnership to have some unique experience to our users so as an example, we collaborated recently with lamborghini so top players could be invited in lamborghini hq in italy david bitton 10 20 i think there was a mistake here because i didn't get invited so i would love to maybe to play a little bit more on the on assaulter so, aurelien lavaud 10 31 yes, train a train half an hour and you may be the next one david bitton 10 35 okay, okay so i will play and repeat just for a forum actually, the samsung ran many asphault nine tournaments included, including in the netherlands, korea, the us at our annual developer conference in south africa as well when usually trying to promote the launch of new devices like galaxy note 10, for example, or when running some events like galaxy studio around the world so thanks to them to the customization of this publicly available ap can gain we could we could offer a unique experience to our users so i guess that the different teams involved the there must have had some extra hours of developing testing and as we said, playing as well right in the tribe we have been putting a lot of work on this live demo units, give you some numbers we are looking at around 300 hours of testing wow so that was heavy, but i needed to make sure all the products were top notch yeah and our latest developer conference in the in the us, you went on stage to receive a best of a world in the in the racing category for us asphalt 9 so what was your feeling regarding this, this event aurelien lavaud 12 16 that we're feeling was amazing i mean from via reception or via word to the game booth that was welcoming a huge crowd of people eager to play asphault nine on the lattice samsung galaxy fold it was three more i believe in david bitton 12 33 and in speaking of galaxy fold, actually, you also on book two to create a customized version of the game for galaxy fold that that would support app continuity so from your side, partner perspective, what were the lessons learned there during this, this approach and the development? aurelien lavaud 12 57 i think this project was particular interesting because quilted was new for the team they had never been walking on, on this feature so what they were discovering, and they were eating, they were eating some wood blocks so at some points, they weren't progressing anymore and that's where they started, we started to connect or different developers seem together with your ui on the team at samsung and we were able to overcome to overcome the difficulties that both teams were working together to deliver our very nice products and to make sure that we can keep this continuity and move from one screen to another two tablets off when we opened it to the device, without any interruption without any change so it was quite collaboration and we learned a lot from this david bitton 13 52 let's switch gears here and admit and let's talk about the future if i if i may so 90s is right now in full, full speed again, happy birthday assault without revealing any trade secrets, i was wondering what would trigger the release of assault then? would that be like a new game engine on which you're working on or some kind of revolutionary user experience? could you could you share a little bit more about that? aurelien lavaud 14 26 should they so i will probably disappoint everybody but at the moment we are not planning to release something yet there's a reason behind is that there are a lot of work to do on asphault nine so as for nine i've never been so successful there are plenty of new features and contents we are planning to offer on asphault nine so objective is really to prove us on nine first, to focus on innovation to make sure we can integrate new features new contents, new cars, new tracks to deliver perfect and expanse of course will promote ensuring new technologies as well and there will be integrated into us online but no vision at the moment for us have felt any relief because we still have so much work to do and david bitton 15 14 understood so, as you as you mentioned, you said that you regularly add content you features so, would you have any exciting location coming up soon for as for nine aurelien lavaud 15 28 bring a new location is always a very important part of the game because it helps us to rediscover the game unfortunately, i will not be able to deliver any information in wales next tracks will be what i can do is to invite user to general on a facebook page where we are trying to keep the hype to make the user guess what is the next track so you can take parts to the discussion, you can get involved on the facebook page you will get more insights step by step on the new tracks we are planning to release okay? okay the other thing i can tell is that we also have this this content creator opportunity so you can go on www asphaultnine com/creators and he, you can take part into the content creation show interested so you can get more insight on where the game is heading you can get more involved into the game okay, okay, a way to keep the hype going david bitton 16 30 your team i mean, the asphalt 19 aurelien lavaud 16 34 as a unique expertise in racing, modeling cause even experiencing crashes, for example so, actually, i have two questions here is their first any plan to leverage this expertise for a new racing game from the same team does the first question and second question more generally, how much of transferable skills feels a dedicated studio team can have when it comes to creating games indeed, we have some studios that are specialized in different games but overall, there's a lot of shared knowledge and synergies between the different teams so, our promise to you is the same for you or at company level we work on different types of titles, different types of channels and different for different audiences but based on the resources leads based on the experience of the team, we will be able to be flexible and to bring people to support us our team to allocate resources differently on the project that we need needs to last so we always try to develop or games or team and grow people to make sure they can, they can move to a different type of projects to a difference a different type of develop different type of skills and they can yeah david bitton 18 01 okay, okay great, great going back to this partnership with samsung, any exciting plan you would like to develop in the, in the future with a samsung any, any specific any specific ideas that you that you would have to grow to grow the business aurelien lavaud 18 18 actually we are very open and now since we started with the partnership we were really impressed with all the innovations you guys we are bringing so we could be looking at other new technologies from artificial intelligence to augmented reality virtual reality cloud gaming we are going to explore it a bit everything and we just probably need the time to see what kind of walk and how we can do this together david bitton 18 54 exciting just between you and me if you will to own one of these hyper cars that that are available in asphalt nine if you if you don't have the already, which one? would it be? would you have any preference for a specific hyper car? and second question, where would you drive this car? aurelien lavaud 19 17 unfortunately, i do not have any of these cats i wish i did i wish i do but no, i have a sweet spot for the cats sharon i would i think it would be quite nice to drive it on the italian coast so we could have a clever, nice, nice view on the mediterranean sea and enjoy the ride david bitton 19 44 okay, this this sounds nice yeah just to just to finish here with a last question we do have any closing comments for developers out there? aurelien lavaud 19 57 yes as a matter of fact i have so we were very happy with sort of the experience we do guys is i think it's a very good experience to walk with samsung in the way that you've always been super supportive so i was about studying when we were developing dual screen, the team was the wizard team was hitting some roadblocks and, and in both for the teams working together, to fix everything, and to bring things forward we were also quite impressed with all those new features and new technologies you are developing on your recent models and for us, give us a way to improve the game experience for the user to provide to users new features, and to deliver a more memorable game experience david bitton 20 48 okay, yeah so, two things that are here for to do thank you first happy birthday again to the asphalt franchise and second, thanks thank you for your time again i hope we could we could shed some light on our partnership between samsung and again last and also get developers excited so earlier thank you thank you again for your time aurelien lavaud 21 16 thank you very much for the invitation on this podcast was very, very interesting and i really hope we can develop new technologies and develop organs further on samsung devices outro 21 30 looking to start creating for samsung, download the latest tools to code your next app, or get software for designing apps without coding at all sell your apps to the world on the samsung galaxy store check out www developersamsung com today and start your journey with samsung the pow! podcast is brought to you by the samsung developer program and produced by tony morelan
Learn Developers Podcast
docseason 2, episode 8 previous episode | episode index | next episode this is a transcript of one episode of the samsung developers podcast, hosted by and produced by tony morelan a listing of all podcast transcripts can be found here host tony morelan senior developer evangelist, samsung developers instagram - twitter - linkedin guests aleksander tyszka, hyun kim, dan appelquist, aaron swift, roger kibbe, sooyeon kim, eric cloninger samsung developer conference after taking a year off due to the pandemic, we recently held our annual developer conference, sdc21 this year’s conference was a virtual conference, with insightful highlight sessions and in-depth tech talks in this episode, i sit down with several samsung insiders, to recap the many highlights from this year’s show we'll chat about one ui 4, the samsung incubation program, smartthings, bixby, our partnership with google and the new watch ecosystem, samsung internet and our new podcast platform listen download this episode topics covered samsung incubation program one ui 4 samsung internet smartthings bixby developers watch ecosystem samsung podcast platform transcript note transcripts are provided by an automated service and reviewed by the samsung developers web team inaccuracies from the transcription process do occur, so please refer to the audio if you are in doubt about the transcript tony morelan 00 01 hey, i'm tony morelan, and this is pow!, the samsung developers podcasts, where we chat with innovators using samsung technologies, award winning app developers and designers, as well as insiders working on the latest samsung tools welcome to season two, episode eight after taking a year off due to the pandemic, we recently held our annual developer conference sdc21 this year's conference was a virtual conference with insightful highlight sessions in in depth tech talks in this episode, i sit down with several samsung insiders to recap some of the great moments from this year's show we'll chat about one ui 4, the samsung incubation program, smartthings, the new watch ecosystem, samsung internet and a new podcast platform enjoy so at sdc21, one of the most interesting talk sessions that i watched was the kafir innovator session where they talked about the samsung incubation program and joining me on the podcast is someone who works closely with that incubation program, alec tyszka, who's a manager technology strategy and partnerships at samsung yeah, welcome to the podcast hey, tony, how are you doing? well, let's start with what is the samsung incubation program? aleksander tyszka 01 20 sure so samsung innovation program is an incubation program that we've launched already in europe a few years back, and that we've expanded this year in the us the program itself has two main goals is one we want our business unit so you know, different groups at samsung that work on digital appliances, tvs, smartphones, wearables, we want to give them a way to do very sort of rapid prototyping to quickly develop new products and services but very highly innovative ones things that weren't organically be created if we just did our everyday work the other one is to also be able to work with the labs that samsung have done work on, though, on long term projects, we want to have sort of all the brands that that leverage all the brands we have at samsung to create these, these this long-term vision that we have about what are the services that people are going to use? what are the products that people are going to need, and try to find a way to bring these products and services to life? tony morelan 02 22 yeah, so i saw, you know, in that session where they, you know, talked about that, that need to innovate in some of those technologies that came out of those partnerships, where you know, like the health sensors with wearables, z fold, things like that, it's pretty interesting to think that those technologies came out of those partnership collaborations aleksander tyszka 02 41 yeah, i think when we start working with cutting edge technology, and you mentioned the z fold, especially some technologies i've been that have been developed internally at samsung, for flexible and foldable screens does are quite unique, right? there's only a handful of company that that make them in the world and then if you talk of, of the scale, by which we work with these, we don't make five foldable phones, right, we make 10s of millions so sure what when you work at this scale, with those sort of cutting-edge bleeding edge technology, it just takes a lot, a lot of efforts to bring them to life and samsung alone can't really do it, we need to find partners, and we need to work with them and those are typically startups and all that all sort of the people that work around startups, incubators, accelerators, venture capitalist industry experts, in we need to find the solutions to improve the product and bring these products to life tony morelan 03 34 yeah, and i'm sure that, you know, having that collaboration with those, those innovators really help you like think ahead, thinking to the future, you know, where do you need to go? where do you need to focus your energy? so it's great that there is this program to allow samsung to work with these, these innovators so tell me what are some of the details of the of the program aleksander tyszka 03 54 so the program itself is a six-month long program, we get we'll provide some funding stun company, anywhere from 20 to 100k, depending on what the companies do, if it's hardware, a software, there's no string attached with this funding, we don't take any equity and like some of the big household names like y combinator is 500 startups and then we provide a lot of mentoring, mostly technical mentoring from our engineers and our labs sure and the idea is just to help them build a prototype help them showcase a demo to our executive immediately after the program after six months, two years, two outcomes we're really looking for and then we'll qualify as successful outcomes is either investment or commercialization meaning we'll work with the companies will leverage our solution to build a product tony morelan 04 41 ah, that's great so in the call for innovator session, what was the key highlight the key takeaway from that session? aleksander tyszka 04 47 sure the key highlight for us is really that we need partners we want to be part of the ecosystem and we want to give back that ecosystem you know, startups are a major part of that ecosystem they're very forward looking we want to, we want to leverage their ideas, and we want to contribute positively to them want to help them and we want to be able to connect with the entire ecosystem behind the startups, the universities, the vcs, incubators, we want to work with all these people that's the main takeaway is samsung wants to remain, you know, very innovative, but we want to do it tony morelan 05 22 with partners you know, my takeaway from that session was hearing that success story fibricheck, where they created that on device, ecg sensing, that would help detect irregular and rapid heart rate using ai in our in our galaxy watch and seeing that, you know, it wasn't just that we provided funding, but it was that collaboration where you know, where we helped build the medical grade application, we, you know, helped with the regulatory approval, but then also learning that that we helped with, you know, define what their business model was in their in their go to market strategy that was really neat to see that that success story that was shared aleksander tyszka 06 02 yeah, i think for especially when companies in the health space, right, we did that, that's a pretty fragmented space, right? there's a lot of device manufacturers in many different countries that have their own sort of regulatory constraints by working with these types of companies, we provide a very sort of great way, a great go to market strategy for them, it's sort of built in, it's like, here's our wearables, we sell, you know, 10s of millions of them every year and they're very standard, they're easy to integrate, and well will support older go to market, going through retail stores, and those sort of things i mean, it makes it easier for the company right to quickly grow their company and for help, specifically, that fear check is such a great example of the sort of things we're trying to achieve, right and there's a ton more we can do at that space, people are talking about noninvasive, continuous glucose monitoring, maybe hydration as well in the future, and we want to find a company building these features and try to work with them tony morelan 07 01 yeah, and, you know, just at large, we've got this enormous ecosystem, you know, with our devices, you know, with galaxy store smartthings, bixby and there's just so many areas that we can be involved with aleksander tyszka 07 11 yeah, the ecosystem we provide is it's huge and it's sometimes it's hard for us to prioritize which companies we want to bring in into that ecosystem, right but going through a program like samsung's incubation program, were able to quickly filter for the best partners and focus our efforts, our efforts, sorry, on the ones that were most contribute to that ecosystem tony morelan 07 32 so it was great to hear you know, all about the samsung incubation program, what is the best way for people to connect with your team? aleksander tyszka 07 41 so we will have a website up and running pretty soon until then you can email us at info jump@samsung com tony morelan 07 49 so there were a lot of great sessions at sdc21 what were some of the favorite sessions that you saw that developers should check out? aleksander tyszka 07 56 yeah, i think the first one i have in mind is the one on the foldable device, i have a full device myself, i really, really like it, i get a lot of comment when people see it and then when they know and looking at stuff with it, there's basically different modes, right? you can you can use the front screen and use it like a regular device but the second you fold it, like a 45-degree angle, you want the app to act differently with the application so a good example of that is what if it became sort of like a gameboy where you have your screen on one on one ends? and bottom part of your controllers? yeah and there's a lot more use case like that what about video conferencing tool where you can see other people in the top screen in the bottom screen is a whiteboard where people can collaborate so i think there's a lot of use cases that can develop and we haven't even begun sort of scratching the surface of what can be devops so i look forward to see more developers think about that start developing around that and see what they can come up with tony morelan 08 49 excellent that's great hey, alec, i really appreciate you coming on the podcast today it was it was wonderful to learn much more about what you guys are doing at the samsung incubation program aleksander tyszka 08 58 oh, thank you very much for having me tony was a pleasure excellent thanks tony morelan 09 01 so one ui four was one of the biggest announcements we made at sdc and i'm excited to have on the podcast, head of the core ux group for samsung mobile, he and kim hyun kim 09 12 hi, i'm leon kim, and for inviting me and it's very exciting to be joining podcast tony morelan 09 19 so when you why is the user interface installed on samsung devices and was originally released back in 2019 for people who are listening to the podcast that might not be familiar with the details of one ui? can you give us a brief overview? hyun kim 09 32 oh, sure one ui means entire software experience that galaxy devices are delivering to our users, meaning it actually includes productivity experience and watching videos and privacy experience, onboarding experience and all different services and apps and all that our customer can enjoy from galaxy devices tony morelan 09 56 you gave a highlight session at sdc on the soon to be released one ui four that was really insightful can you share some of the key takeaways from that session? hyun kim 10 06 sure ever since we launched the one ui, we've been emphasized our users to be able to focus on what matters at each moment so focus is one of the highlighted experience that we want to enhance, as well and when you're a 4 0 on top of it, we also want to deliver the comfort experience as well especially these days, pandemic gives our users screen for t, meaning the screen time is increasing and the number of apps that people are juggling, and for period of time that they are looking at the screen is increasing and then people are having eye fatigue and we actually really need to deliver more comfortable experience for their eyes and for their peace of mind so we took care of all those aspects when we design on ui four so we took out visual lewis's as much as possible, we took out the number of colors, we took out the number of different font sizes, minimize the visual noises, so that user can focus on and consume the important content and third test that they think it matters at the moment very comfortably also, we allow extra diem feature, when user see the screen went dark, we want their eyes to be more comfortable so we collaborate with google make the screen even darker than the darkest level right now and we believe that would be more comfortable with those new features and new design tony morelan 11 56 yeah, no, that's great and i loved hearing about the natural interactions, these intuitive interactions that are being developed into one uio 4 talk about that hyun kim 12 05 recently, people are juggling more number of apps, and they are facing the more number of features and they're consuming more amount of content, meaning we need to provide very simple ui, ui needs to be higher level of intuitiveness so we wanted to put more gesture on the content itself so that user can feel they manipulate and control content itself without looking at ui component so then, non-visual component should help users to feel the reaction when user touch the screen so we put motions, visuals and physical feedback harmonize together, so that when user touch the content and move the content and drag and drop the content, we want them to feel they are moving the real physical object to one place to another tony morelan 13 08 yeah, and those vibrations, those are called haptics, correct haptics, hyun kim 13 11 right? every version of you on ui, we enhance the haptics and this year, the direction of enhancement of haptic feedback is not only just adding a right bit back in the right place, but also, we add the haptic feedback with motion and visuals together to create a feeling of natural interaction in the physical world tony morelan 13 35 yeah, so i know that that that combination of sound animation and haptics will definitely provide for some very, very real-life device interactions talk a bit about privacy, because i know that privacy was mentioned in your session, what are some of the improvements related around privacy? hyun kim 13 53 basically, what we believe is transparency is very important so providing peace of mind, for our customer, about the privacy, the basically transparency is really important the first one is we're showing all the apps list that are using user's personal data so the user can see which apps are using which data and then user can easily access the individual apps permission, turning on and off also, on offered right corner of the device the screen is showing when camera or mic is on then icon is displayed, so that user can clearly recognize okay, camera is on mic is on and if it's not fair, then you can feel safe okay, nobody's listening or watching tony morelan 14 47 yeah, that's, that's great so coming from one ui three, what are some of the biggest improvements that we're now going to see in one ui for hyun kim 14 55 improvement wise as a new experience is self-expression, the more we research customers, the more we're sure that they're expressing themselves in many different ways and have any fun ways and they want to express their emotions and thoughts, and creativities and their identities and themselves, as they are in many different places in our galaxy one ui for we want them to enjoy expressing themselves for instance, we're launching a new tool for them to create a fun emoji pair animation for them to create their own content to express their emotions but sometimes one emoji isn't just enough for them to express their rich emotions people can choose two different images to put together and put animation to bring the combo to life and then there are chosen to emoji can be animated and delivered to their friends and family via messenger and it'll be very fun content, like exploding head yeah, you can create your own content there are many, many fun, any major that we're providing also, there are presets so we believe people will enjoy this in samsung keyboard when they communicate each other and they will express their emotion in a very fun way also, we enhance photo editor a lot so that people can express their thoughts and creativity when they picture and edit it and share every year we've been enhancing photo editor video earlier about this year, we redesigned editors so that user can see this very seamless and easy, simple, intuitive editor ux tony morelan 16 54 and i loved when you spoke about extracting wallpaper colors to be used throughout the ui experience hyun kim 17 00 oh, yeah, that's, that's another very fun feature, except for expression isn't just about what you send out self-expression is about your styles, you can style your phone, you can extract the color from your wallpaper, you also can pick your wallpaper from your gallery so you can choose whatever your favorite pictures from your gallery and put your wallpaper and then we're providing four different color palette that can apply to your one ui and you can choose one of the four options, then your ui color will be changed and color schemes will be different or depending on what you're choosing and this is a little different than other like theming services because when your eyes original usability and identity are still there but the color keeping the readability usability, the only the color is going to be changing yeah and you can still enjoy the benefit of one ui with only the color that you choose from the wallpaper tony morelan 18 12 yeah, in you get that single experience across all platforms, meaning you know all of your devices, whether it's your phone, your tablet, your watch galaxy book, tell me a little bit more about that cross-platform experience, hyun kim 18 24 we have been putting effort, the device eco system experience this year, we launched the wherewith for when you watch and more than ever, we put the best seamless experience between galaxy book galaxy watch, and flip and folder and phone and tablet and we also launched enhanced version of quick share the experience for sending receiving files between devices, click share allows users to send and receive any type of files to your friends who has galaxy and to your devices and receive as well quickly if the devices are around you tony morelan 19 14 yeah, that's great so tell me when will when ui for be available on different devices hyun kim 19 21 we're really excited to be releasing one ui four update before the end of the year tony morelan 19 26 and to upgrade is it as simple as going into your menu settings, your software, update menu settings and just selecting the upgrade? hyun kim 19 35 yeah, you can update it go to settings and software update tony morelan 19 39 excellent so for developers that want to learn more about when ui for what is the best way, hyun kim 19 45 you can go to websites like www dot developer at samsung com/one-ui tony morelan 19 56 what other sessions at sdc would you suggest that developers checkout? hyun kim 19 59 sure, there are many, many exciting helpful sessions but one other person that i want to recommend is one of the highlights session for the title was what's new in foldable and they're talking about multitasking capabilities and flex mode to help developers optimize their own apps and optimizing web pages supporting flex mode by using the web share device posture api tony morelan 20 25 yeah, yeah and there was also there was a tech talk session that i liked, called one ui designing a more intuitive, approachable experience that was by jung woo, you that was another great, great session hyun kim 20 36 yeah, he's actually a member in my group and he has been putting a huge amount of effort to prepare that session and i know the content is very fun and exciting tony morelan 20 48 well, thanks for joining me on the podcast again it was wonderful to chat with you and about the upcoming release of one ui for sure thank hyun kim 20 55 you thanks thanks for having me here tony morelan 20 58 all right next on the podcast is someone very familiar with the show who i've had on the podcast several times now, dan, apple quest from samsung internet dan appelquist 21 06 hi, tony it's great to be back on the podcast tony morelan 21 10 excellent so dan is the director of developer advocacy for samsung internet we did an episode last year and actually did another episode earlier this year so be sure to go check out those to learn a ton about samsung internet, and what dan's team's doing but for those that might not be familiar with samsung internet, can you tell us what is samsung internet? dan appelquist 21 28 sure i'm leading the developer advocacy group of samsung internet, our group is based in in the uk, actually and we're kind of an international team what is samsung internet? samsung internet is samsung's mobile browser for android phones it's also available for any android phone, but it is shipped on samsung phones it's the purple planet you know, if you're if you're familiar with your normal samsung icon, set your one ui concept that's us that's the purple planet we also just launched a version for galaxy watch, which is very cool that's hot off the press news right now so if you've got a one of the latest galaxy watches, you can also download samsung internet for galaxy watch it's based on chromium, the chromium project, which is the same open source project that google chrome is based off of, a lot of other browsers are based on chromium however, samsung is also a major contributor into the chromium project into the chromium open source projects so we're not just taking the chromium browser and slapping our own ui on it that we're actually contributing in to chromium and we do an awful lot to build our own features and technologies into samsung internet so in, in particular, we focus on privacy so we protect your privacy with features like safe browsing, our own in house smart anti tracking technology, and the ability to install third party blockers, ad blockers, tracking blockers, that kind of thing so those are the kinds of things that we're doing to kind of protect people as they use the web and that's an that's such a key important role that browsers have we're also a great platform first progressive web apps if you have attended any of our previous sessions at previous sdcs you'll know that we're big fans of progressive web apps just briefly, a progressive web app is a web application that can be installed onto your device and looks to the user as if it is a native application but it's actually running inside the browser so good example is twitter has a progressive web app pwa many other web sites and web properties have progressive web app versions of their other applications and in fact, we just participated in a separate conference, which just ran recently in collaboration with microsoft and google, and that had a complete focus on pwa s and if you're interested in that, it's all streamable from pwa summit org tony morelan 24 06 awesome so there were some great sessions at sec related to samsung at both when it came to foldables and with extensions, can you tell me what were some of the highlights for you? sure dan appelquist 24 16 so we're really, really excited to be able to speak at sdc this year about our work with foldables so as far as foldables go, the exciting news that we're able to talk about is that we're launching an experimental api called the device posture api it's being developed in the world wide web consortium in the w three c as a proposed web standard with intel and microsoft as partners this api is launched behind a flag right now, tony morelan 24 47 what does that mean dan appelquist 24 48 behind a flag? it means you have to you have to activate it, in order to make it work it's not going to work out of the box and that's because it is experimental the reason it's like that is because we want people to experiment with this api sure, it may change, right and usually when api's are in this kind of place where are in a phase of their development where they might change their launched behind a flag, so that developers get a chance to play with it, play with it feedback into the process and by the way, laura, for my team who gave the talk on device posture api at sdc is also the person participating in the standards committee, the w three c devices and sensors working group and contributing that into that work all of that is happening on github so there's absolutely an opportunity for developers to get engaged and all of that information is in is in laura's talk as well tony morelan 25 45 oh, yeah, that's great yeah, i had laura on the podcast earlier this year that she would she was an excellent guest dan appelquist 25 50 she's, she's great she's really good we've also been working with some partners to get their feedback and to get some early implementations out there so that we can get some experience with this in particular, we're working with youtube and we're working with a company called whereby, which is a video conferencing company based out of norway okay so these are good examples of where you might want to change the ui of your web application when the user folds the device and that's basically the key element here that we're talking about and that's also why when we're talking about this new api, we're talking about it in the context of responsive design yeah, and that was a lot of the focus of laura's talk as well responsive design, meaning that the application itself responds to changes in the screen size in the orientation, that kind of thing so you are responding and being i'm adapting the ui to the to the user's needs tony morelan 26 52 yeah and i love the interactive code lab, the laura had been involved with there dan appelquist 26 58 that's right and, and that, again, can allow you to kind of sink your teeth into this api, and, you know, with code examples, and, and real tutorial about how to get up and running with this so yeah, so again, very excited to be able to do this in the virtual sdc environment tony morelan 27 20 yeah excellent so next, let's talk about the extensions, the session that that was that was given, right tell me about that so dan appelquist 27 27 yeah, my colleague cyclon gave a talk on the current state of our extensions api so we launched a third-party extensions api this year and we opened that up to a wider developer community by the way, we're on one of very few mobile browsers that actually allow third party extensions and we also have within the browser itself, you can go to the extensions menu, and you can find a list of the of the kinds of approved extensions that we have excellent but those are also they're downloadable from the galaxy store but once installed, they become part of the browser, right? so the extensions add new features to the browser right so just to highlight two of the extensions that are currently available for installation, we have the translator extension, which allows you to translate web pages from one language to another that's actually developed in house really, yeah, very, very cool, very cool stuff and we recently launched an extension from the web monetization company coil that is, that's a technology that can make anonymous micro transactions micro payments to websites that you browse from a cryptocurrency wallet and this is, this is a kind of approach that is seen by some people as a replacement for pervasive tracking networks that currently power advertising on the web one way of moving beyond that is to pay websites directly for the time that you spend on them so this is a really interesting idea we've been tracking this for a while and talking to people at coyle, who are also participants in w three, c, and a lot of the other kind of developer activities that were that we're involved in as well so we're very excited to be able to launch this extension it's their extension, but it's launched in the in the samsung browser, and you can install it and then you can start kind of paying websites through coil for the time that you spend on them it only supports websites that that are subscribed to the coil system, right so it's exactly yeah, it's early days on it, but it's something that's very exciting tony morelan 29 34 yeah, yeah interesting concept, sort of like the pay as you go yeah, format dan appelquist 29 38 yeah yeah you know, i don't work for coyle, right but one of the things i think is interesting about it is that those transactions are anonymous so it's very privacy preserving, and it fits together with our philosophy of trying to enhance and protect user privacy tony morelan 29 53 yeah, no, i know privacy is a big thing for you guys over samsung internet yeah, definitely so are there any other sessions at sdc21, that developers should be sure to check out dan appelquist 30 03 well, i would suggest checking out the session called what's new and foldables first of all, which is a kind of highlight session, give it gives a high-level overview and gives a lot of really good context about flex mode, what flex mode is, or what we're referring to as flex mode, which is, again, adapting the user experience of any application to the conditions of the folding device and how that's so important from a user experience standpoint and my colleague dongbu actually gives a brief intro in that session to the device postures api, which leads into laura's longer, more detailed talk got it, and he gives a demo a little demo of how that works as well, which is, which is very cool tony morelan 30 49 yeah, i love learning about all the multitasking capabilities with foldables that was that was great to hear yeah so if developers want to learn more about samsung internet, what is the best way? dan appelquist 31 00 well, you can visit our page on developer samsung com/internet that's got links to our blog, and we blog on medium as well but really, if you go to developer samsung com/internet you can find links there to all the places on the web where, we're present you can also follow us at samsung internet on twitter excellent, where you can always find out what we're doing and you know, we try to keep that up to date with news about samsung internet, but also just the developer activities that we're participating in the standards activities that we're participating in our team manages that twitter handle directly so it's a direct line to our team and our dms are open so if you do have questions about samsung internet, you can feel free to dm us they're tony morelan 31 50 awesome awesome hey, dan, thanks very much for being on the podcast and giving us an insight into the highlights with samsung internet and sdc21 dan appelquist 31 59 thank you, tony it's always a pleasure awesome thanks, tony morelan 32 01 dan there were some great tech talks at sdc related to smart things and lots of great new innovations for shared i'm excited to have aaron swift on the podcast director of customer and partner strategy at smart thanks hey, aaron aaron swift 32 16 hey, tony, how are you doing? tony morelan 32 18 doing just fine, lots of tech talks and even a highlight session for smart things so let's start with the session smart things find from lost to found what were some of the key points with this session aaron swift 32 28 smartthings find launched last year as a service to enable customers to locate galaxy devices such as phones, watches earbuds, your s pen pro, like whatever you might leave on the bus or the train accidentally it comprises more than 100 million find nodes and over 230,000 devices are located every day tony morelan 32 49 so a find no just to clarify, find note is that like another device that's this part of this network, aaron swift 32 55 yeah, like a phone or a tablet, a galaxy phone or a galaxy tablet, running the smartthings app with smartthings fine and as you saw, philip and moon did a great presentation talking about other hardware oems can now integrate their products with smart things fine so we have today our first smart tag device which you could attach to your keys that's available on the market now for everyone but anyone who wants to can start building their own tag devices or integrating their hardware products into the final tony morelan 33 29 yeah, i think that opening up the smartthings five network to the outside hardware oems is going to be huge and will absolutely expand the network tremendously aaron swift 33 39 yeah and they made a set of tools there's this fine device sdk and the test suites they make it really easy for any device manufacturer, whether it's ble, or ultra-wideband, to start integrating their devices if you're using the nordic dialogue or nxp chipset yeah, it's really easy to add the fine sdk into your device for certification tony morelan 34 01 that's going to be that's going to be great there was a session called smart things build and tell me what were some of the highlights for you in that session aaron swift 34 09 that session was led by jenny brand meyer and andy sayer are director of product management and director of engineering okay, and they talked about extending our platform, which historically has been very end user focus, you are buying samsung tvs and appliances for your home and now we're extending the platform for multifamily builders and apartment managers to put in the new apartment buildings okay, there's a new toolset with that, that will allow an installer to go set up hundreds of apartments and hundreds of refrigerators and dishwashers and washing machines and apartments really tony morelan 34 46 quickly so this is giving them the ability to sort of monitor the like what's happening with the with these devices if there's you know, you've got some sort of fault that happens within the system, they can detect that aaron swift 34 58 yeah, so property managers we'll be able to integrate your monitor their fleet of samsung appliances from their property management tool are there any tony morelan 35 08 apis or sdks? related to this? aaron swift 35 12 yeah, so one of the cool things about this new offering is there's a dedicated set of tools and api and sdk set to make it easy for property management software companies, like in trata, to come integrate and provide fleet management for all of the appliances tony morelan 35 28 the one thing that comes to mind, though, when you mentioned something about, you know, giving property managers, the ability to sort of monitor all these devices that are in these homes, comes down to privacy, what's in place related to privacy, when you're talking about something like this aaron swift 35 43 user privacy is front of mind to us, whether you are a home owner or a renter and so what we've done is we put together a new set of permissions on the platform, so that property managers only have the minimum access to data coming off of the appliance is needed to troubleshoot for failures got it if there happens to be something wrong, the property managers will be able to pull some information off of the appliances to troubleshoot the air, but they cannot tell that you're getting your 11pm glass of milk before you go to bed tony morelan 36 18 yeah, the last thing i need is my property manager knowing that i was in my freezer last night going for little ice cream bins aaron swift 36 24 right, right and so we've made sure that users are front of mind in this, that's, that's great, and that their privacy is protected tony morelan 36 31 yeah, that's super important there was also a session called smartthings edge and i thought this was really interesting this is where the execution is done locally without reliance on the cloud tell me more about that session aaron swift 36 44 in summer 2020, we announced major changes coming to our platform, this session ended up being such a long session with so many great speakers, because we are really excited to be talking about those changes sure a couple of my favorite ones are from zack and vlad talking about smart things edge before, when you use smart things to turn on a light with a motion sensor, your motion sensor would detect motion in your home, it would send that motion event to your hub up to the cloud, the cloud would tell you to run that automation, send the event back down to the hub to tell the light ball to turn on sure and that happened quickly but it's not quite as natural as still being able to go turn on the light or the local motion sensor in your home yeah so what smartthings edge does is it took the device events and the automation event and was able to start processing them locally yeah so now when you use that motion sensor to turn on a light motion is detected that goes to the hub, the automation is processed on the hub, and sent back over to the light to turn off without ever having to reach out to the cloud to confirm that event tony morelan 37 56 like what would be a device where you needed like instant, instant, you know, reaction time between the hub and the and the device aaron swift 38 05 so all zigbee and z wave and wi fi devices have the ability to run locally on the hub now with automations okay, so one of the most natural feeling ones is that example i gave with the light you want light to turn on right away? yeah similarly, if you want to be walking into a room and having the temperatures change, or having the vents open and close, the thermostat adjusts those are great use cases for local automations as well okay, what we're doing now is we're investing more features into the rules api to make more automations run locally got it so over time, you'll see more and more complex automations be able to run locally on your hub tony morelan 38 43 for edge devices is it a closed ecosystem? or is it can anyone build for edge? aaron swift 38 49 great question so we've released a collection of edge devices on our smartthings developers github repository that anyone can reference and then any hardware oem can add their fingerprint or their devices to that repository anyone can build their own edge devices if they want to tony morelan 39 10 wow, that's, that's, that's great so i saw there was a highlight session building the future smart home today that talked about the new matter standard can you tell me what was shared in that in that session? aaron swift 39 21 matter is the foundation for smart homes of the future? over 200 companies have come together to develop a standard that is going to be the basis for smart home devices to integrate in the future tony morelan 39 34 would you say that like today the is the ecosystem? is it pretty fragmented? aaron swift 39 39 correct there are all sorts of different smart home standards from all sorts of different companies out there, and each one operates just a little bit different from each other, which makes it hard for device manufacturers to integrate with each platform mater is going to take that fragmentation and create a common application language and data model that will apply across all the data from smartphone platforms, regardless of tony morelan 40 02 yeah, i think that's going to be great, especially for consumers so that they don't have to like decide between which technologies they want to, to purchase that it's all going to kind of seamlessly work together aaron swift 40 12 correct and if you buy a light bulb with the with the matter logo on it, you will know that it'll work with smart things, or any other matters supported ecosystem tony morelan 40 21 that's awesome that is super, super great to hear so you've talked a lot about all these different technologies related to smart things what's the best way for developers to learn even more about smart things? aaron swift 40 34 the best place to go for more information is developer samsung com/smartthings from there you can learn more about building edge devices or cloud devices or stay tuned for future updates on our investment in matter you know all of the sdc sessions on smartthings were great are there any other sessions that you would recommend developers checkout i'm personally a bit of a tv nerd so i'm really excited for redefining the experience of watching tv and what's new in samsung smart tv services tony morelan 41 04 yeah, no, i know, a bunch of the people over the tv plus and it's a great group and doing a lot of amazing things over there a lot of great content coming out that's exciting excellent hey, aaron, i really appreciate you coming on the podcast it was great chatting with you and learning a bit more about smart things and looking forward to chatting with you again in the in the near future aaron swift 41 22 great thanks, tony tony morelan 41 26 so next, i'd like to welcome roger kibbe to the podcast senior developer evangelist for bixby samsung's intelligent assistant technology welcome, roger roger kibbe 41 35 well, thanks you and i talked gosh, was probably over a year ago yeah, actually on the podcast so i'm excited to be back and talk to you about what's new and what we just saw at sdc yeah tony morelan 41 47 so it was i think about a year and a half ago safe to say that a lots happened since then so tell me what is the latest with bixby developers? roger kibbe 41 55 yeah, so we just announced several things that sdc are highlighted some things that changed first thing i want to talk about is some of the ways we've made it easier to develop for bixby and these weren't new announcements, but kind of highlighting some of the changes we've made over the past year or so and so a lot of these are focusing on improving the developer experience, one of the things we did is we created a new training ui so use the training ui to create natural language training and one of the great challenges and voice experiences is to get your natural language training, working well after all, it's the way users interact with all the business logic that you've written so that's a great challenge and so we built a new ui to make that more intuitive and hopefully easier and simpler to build great experiences we also built something we call the component gallery because bixby is on multimodal devices, there is a ui for bixby experience and the component gallery is a wysiwyg component editor so i'm writing some code for what we call bixby views, i can pop up the component gallery, configure something graphically, and it just dumps the code right in so it just makes it easier and then finally, we made it super simple to load a capsule directly from github so we have a bunch of sample code on github and now directly in the studio you can load that sample code from github without having to go and clone it or download it and go through all the previous hassles he had to do so just an example of some of the improvements we made to make it frankly, just easier if your day to day life as a developer developing something for bixby tony morelan 43 32 awesome so let me ask on the end, that component gallery actually was watching one of the sdc sessions on that is pretty cool so just to clarify, this is where like on the device when you give a voice prompt, and the device bixby reacts to that you can then have graphic images appearing on the device is that correct? roger kibbe 43 50 yeah, yeah so you can either when you're basically whenever bixby is communicating with the user, you can actually have a graphical ui on there that's complimentary and it also could have things like buttons on it, or sliders or controls, because one of the things is all these samsung devices so you know, the phone, the watch the television, the tv, all have a ui on there so bixby is not just a voice experience, but it's really a multimodal experience so you need to build graphical ui, we built a tool to make it pretty darn easy to do so tony morelan 44 26 so i heard a bit about bixby on windows tell me tell me about this new announcement roger kibbe 44 30 yeah, so brand new so bixby is available on the galaxy book notebooks so there's the samsung's newest notebooks so bixby is right there is a command key to launch bixby can turn on hi bixby so you can talk to your windows notebook you can ask questions and you can have it control smartthings home automation, you can ask it to find files you can ask them to change windows settings so right now, you know it's focused on a fairly narrow set of things but i'm super excited about we have this brand-new device, a windows laptop, what can you do with a voice front end in front of that? and what are ways where we can make it simpler and easier for a user to use their laptop? by talking to it? to my mind? there's a lot to be discovered there yeah, what we created is kind of step one in a journey toward, you know, making voice a modality that makes it easier for us to interact with our technology, which is what it's all about yeah, exactly tony morelan 45 31 and you had mentioned smart things there was a session at sdc titled enabling intelligent voice control on your iot devices and i know in that they talked about smart things and a lot about bixby tell me, what were some of the key takeaways for you from that session? roger kibbe 45 45 yeah so we introduced something called the bixby home platform, and it's a way of interfacing what you've done a big sweet voice with some of the smart things capabilities and the best way to explain it is for me to give some examples of what you can do and so first example is i might say hi, bixby turn on the dining room lights now if i'd set up dining room lights in smart things, boom, work great today but if i hadn't set up something called dining room lights, today, bixby re prompt you? or say, i can't find dining room lights, that's not a really good user experience sure so what you can set up with the bixby home platform is a lot more smarter logics so hi, bixby turn on the dining room lights, because we can say sorry, i can't find dining room lights, but you have kitchen lights, your bedroom lights, you have den lights? which one would you like to turn on? and so then you kind of the user asked for something that it didn't understand but at a set of airing out? it's like, well, i know you wanted to turn a light on yeah, here's the lights i can turn on and so i kind of prompted the user to, you know, what's the right can you want, much like we would do, frankly, a natural conversation tony morelan 47 00 exactly if roger kibbe 47 01 you ask me something that i didn't understand, i'd probably go can you clarify that? right yeah and so and this is a little bit of adding that kind of logic there so i think that's one great example of just a quote unquote, air becoming a success sure the other thing i want to highlight, and i think this is where it gets really interesting, and frankly, pretty sexy, to me, is where you're actually taking the voice input and you're taking what the iot device, its state and what it's sensing and combining them for some intelligent response okay, so let me let me give you an example so i could say hi bixby, turn on my air purifier, yeah, buy an air purifier, boom, today would turn it on all good but now with the bixby home platform, i can set it up so when i say hi bixby turn on the air purifier, instead of instantly turning on, i can go query the air purifier and say, hey, you know, what's, what's the air quality? okay, and if air quality was moderate, or acceptable, boom, i just turn it on and the default fan speed, maybe medium is on but let's say the air quality is poor well, then when i query it back and says, oh, air quality is poor now i can say, well, you want to turn it on and the air quality is poor i'll turn it on but i'm actually going to turn on and turn the fan to high so you're getting this this feedback loop? it's really, you're getting the user what they asked for, you're getting the state of an iot device you're combining those together? yeah and then the action is just smarter to my mind, this is pretty, i say, sexy and exciting because if you think about this, this is getting into much more intelligence sure the devices know, i know what you asked for, i know the state, i'm going to take the most intelligent action based upon those two inputs and that's what bixby home platform is all about it's really a development tool that lets you build experiences, like what i was just talking about tony morelan 48 59 yeah, i absolutely love that and i loved when he said in the session, that there's they're planning to open this up to partners and also to third party devices yeah, reach is going to be huge roger kibbe 49 10 absolutely well, i mean, i think that's one of the big things with a smartthings ecosystem, right is it's not just for samsung devices, but it's for, you know, devices from dozens or hundreds of manufacturers so if i can read some information on the device, i can get that information and i can do something very logical and just make things work more intelligently isn't that what we all want from our technology? tony morelan 49 32 exactly, yeah so on that note, you know, something i saw also very interesting in that session was the bixby home studio i absolutely love the whole idea of, you know, with your mouse, you can just drag and drop it and build out, you know, these experiences, all without coding yeah, that's on bixby home studio so like that is roger kibbe 49 50 the tooling behind what the experiences that i just talked about, so that you could intuitively built out, i use that air purifier example because actually, if you look at the session, they built out that exact experience and i think except i encourage people to go take a look at that because that is a really good way to kind of understand what i'm talking about, and hopefully get you excited about, huh, wow, there's something cool that i could build as an end user experience tony morelan 50 22 yeah and the demo they gave was pretty in depth i mean, this is not just a you know, they didn't just skim over the, you know, the concept of bixby home studio, they actually went through and built it out yes, it was pretty nice so that was an awesome session but i know there were a bunch of other sessions all kind of related to, you know, smart things in bixby what were some of the other sessions that you would suggest developers to check out? roger kibbe 50 44 yeah, so i would definitely check out the two bixby sessions that we that we mentioned and as you can see, a lot of the focus is on bixby and smart things yeah so if you're a bixby developer, i would suggest you check out some of the spark thing sessions and understand that, because i think a lot of the focus of what we're looking at is, hey, how do we get home controller devices to work super, super well with voice so that and that really is a dance between what bixby is doing and what smartthings is doing, and building that together and that's what the bixby home studio is all about so understand the two sides of the equation and then you'll understand and hopefully can build some really cool tony morelan 51 27 stuff yeah, i love the collaboration that's happening between smartthings and bixby so if developers want to learn more about bixby what's the what's the best way? roger kibbe 51 37 i yeah, so first thing would be go to bixbydevelopers com and that's a homepage for everything bixby that's download the studio, where we have our documentation, and just a bunch of information the other thing is we have a pretty active youtube channel so just look for bixby developers on youtube, youtube slash bixby developers, loads and then pretty much everything we do that's new, or we introduce a new youtube video, we would definitely post that to twitter okay, so that's twitter and that's bixby developers and then i do a weekly like tech tip of the week, like a two-minute video tutorial, and that's posted to twitter as well or also facebook so you can find that on facebook and then finally, i am the host of a podcast yeah, i guess focuses on all things voice not just bixby it is called bixby developers chat you can find it in your favorite podcast player or you should be able to ask your voice assistant hi bixby play bixby developers chat, podcast or another voice assistant and all of them should be able to play it so that is another resource tony morelan 52 45 that's awesome and it's a great podcast i have listened to your to your work you do you do an excellent job from one podcaster to another roger kibbe 52 52 well, thank you that's the kind of compliment you'd like to hear because we all understand the challenges and what you need to do to make a great podcast tony morelan 53 01 guests and let me remind everyone go check out that episode we did it was in the first season with roger, you can learn a bunch more about bixby and how to get started creating voice assisted capsules roger kibbe 53 11 well, thanks, tony really appreciate it and go check out those sdc videos to get a really more in depth understanding of the things we've talked about today tony morelan 53 19 thanks, roger banks one of the biggest announcements we made this past year is our latest watches now run on a new operating system called wear os powered by samsung and joining me on the podcast today is su yong kim, one of the software engineers here at samsung that has worked closely on our new watch ecosystem hey, sam thanks for joining me on the podcast today sooyeon kim 53 38 hi, tony thanks for having me today my name is yan qin and i'm a software engineer at samsung i'm very excited today to briefly recap our sdc sessions on samsung galaxy watch and where it was powered by samsung, which we jointly built with google tony morelan 53 55 yeah so there were several sessions related to the new watch ecosystem in the unified platform what would you say are the benefits of the new wear os powered by samsung? rooyen kim 54 04 so there are many, many benefits but first, we have created a seamless and deeply connected experience across not only samsung galaxy devices, but also for wear smartwatches and android smartphones with this new unified platform, we want to expand our ecosystem bring greater scale to our developer community, and at the same time, delight consumers with a variety of choices from watches to watch faces and apps tony morelan 54 33 yeah, it's true not only this, the developer community going to expand it but also the consumer reach is going to grow even wider can you talk about the growth of the smartwatch market over the past several years? sooyeon kim 54 44 well, the smartwatch market is continuously growing and in fact, according to counterpoint research shipments grew by 35% for the first quarter of 2021 compared to last year and after samsung galaxy watch for launch before august, we once again recognize this explosive growth and will continue to work hard to meet the demands of this growing market tony morelan 55 08 yeah, i agree as smartwatches get smarter than market demand is only going to increase can you tell me what are some of the new and exciting apps available for the new wear os powered by samsung? sooyeon kim 55 19 so users can enjoy familiar samsung apps like samsung pay smartthings and bixby but now google apps are also available like google maps, and youtube music we are also partnering with a wide variety of partners and developers on apps that are available for download from the play store on your watch on your phone there is also a dedicated category for watch apps, so you can easily browse and download them directly to your watch tony morelan 55 46 yeah, i love that youtube music is now available on galaxy watch for many people are buying the watch because they like to track workouts and have an active lifestyle and listening to music has always been a key component to working out can you tell me how is the new samsung galaxy watch for taking advantage of the health and wellness market? sooyeon kim 56 03 so we want to help users keep track of their health status and fitness activities so we brought groundbreaking health features and sophisticated sensors to our new samsung galaxy watch four in selected markets users can check body composition, blood pressure, electrocardiogram skeletal muscle mass based on the tablet grade water, fat percentage, and so on tony morelan 56 26 yeah, it's absolutely amazing that with this little device on your wrist, you can now check things like skeletal muscle mass and fat percentage and can conduct an ekg test can current android developers build watch apps for the new wireless powered by samsung and publish just as they've done before sooyeon kim 56 41 so we aim to make every step of watch app development from ease of bill to market launch as simple as possible with this new unified platform so yes, android developers, you can continue to build your apps within this familiar environment using android studio with watch emulators and existing and new wear os specific api's developers can also deploy and increase exposure for their apps with the watch apps category on the google play store tony morelan 57 11 yeah, so my background is in graphic design and for me, my biggest question was, were we going to build a new tool that would allow designers to create watch faces for the new unified platform? and when they learned the answer was yes, i was really excited so what are some of the new exciting features with the new west powered by samsung watch base design tool, watch face studio, sooyeon kim 57 31 anyone can download, design and publish watch faces for whereas on the play store, you don't have to learn how to code and just need to explore the new design tool watch face studio for more details there is a separate tech talk session on this tony morelan 57 45 yeah, so that session was called introducing the new watch face studio, it was a great overview of the new tool that showed just how easy it is for someone to create a watch face without any coding what are some of the other sessions from sdc21 that watch face developers should check out? sooyeon kim 57 59 oh, first there is the highlight session watch ecosystem or new era where we cover the new samsung galaxy watch ecosystem at a high level then there are tick tock sessions, build your app and the new watch ecosystem is where we specifically talk about watch app development and run through a range of api's by inviting a special guest from google and there is also a session on a new health platform that runs on where was powered by samsung tony morelan 58 27 yeah, there were a lot of great sessions all related to wearables, and lots of new opportunities for developers what is the best way for developers to learn more about the new watch ecosystem? sooyeon kim 58 36 for developers, i encourage visiting the samsung developers and the android developer sites, you can go to developer samsung com/galaxy-watch and also developer android com/where i really appreciate you coming on to the podcast today and giving your insight in to the new watch ecosystem super exciting times thanks tony thanks for inviting me so tony morelan 58 51 i'd like to welcome back to the podcast, eric clung injure, who leads developer relations at samsung eric and i did a pre sdc podcast where we gave a little preview on what to expect it sdc21, and highlights from some of our past developer conferences if you haven't checked out that episode yet, be sure to go back in and give it a listen eric, welcome back to the podcast eric cloninger 59 22 hey, tony, that was a lot of fun you know, we've been doing conferences for years and even though sdc21 was a virtual conference, it was a lot of work and a lot of work by a lot of people at samsung, yourself included and you know, i'd like to really give a shout out to everybody who put in a lot of effort a lot of late nights and all on it so i hope that the people who listened to the keynote and the spotlight session and all the technical sessions got something out of it yeah and hopefully next year, we can do this live yeah, tony morelan 59 54 no, i'm looking forward to that but yes, it was it was a great virtual conference so i've asked eric to join me on this episode to chat about the sdc session that i gave called grow your podcast audience with samsung eric cloninger 1 00 06 earlier this year, samsung made it really easy for device users to listen to podcasts can you share? what is the new podcast platform? tony morelan 1 00 14 yeah, so the new podcast platform, it's super easy to access from your device on the home screen, all you do is swipe left, which is our minus one screen that is samsung free, which is basically free entertainment from samsung all in one place there's four tabs there so there's the watch tab, which is if you wanted to stream tv, there's the read tab, if you want it to read news, there's the play tab, which is playing games and then of course, there is the listen tab, which is all about listening to podcasts eric cloninger 1 00 47 so who can access all of that content with samsung free? yeah, so tony morelan 1 00 50 samsung free is available on all of our latest devices so this is basically the note devices and s series going all the way back to s nine plus all the versions of z fold in z flip right now samsung free is only available in the us but we are expanding to europe soon i've been told that by the end of the year, we will be hitting some european countries eric cloninger 1 01 12 that's great so why did we launch a new podcast service? tony morelan 1 01 15 samsung's podcast strategy is to make it easy for the millions of samsung device users to listen to their favorite podcast shows and discover new episodes quickly and easily and also it gives publishers an impactful way to reach new listeners and really expand their audience eric cloninger 1 01 31 so how do those publishers bring their shows to samsung so grab tony morelan 1 01 34 your url from your podcast rss feed, and you can find that from your podcast hosting provider, take that rss feed in go to samsung podcast com sign up for a free samsung account and all you do is fill out a short form that allows you to import your rss feed url typically, it takes less than five minutes for you to fill out that form and that quickly, your show is now available on all of the samsung free devices eric cloninger 1 02 00 so what samsung free and the podcast platform doing to help publishers get their shows discovered tony morelan 1 02 05 so our editorial team is always looking for new and exciting shows to promote every week, we feature about seven new shows on our homepage and these promotional features have been extremely valuable for publishers in fact, there was one publisher in mind recently, marty ray project chats he saw a 2,000% increase in downloads just after being featured on our homepage so that was really great to see the value in that promotion for him eric cloninger 1 02 29 yeah, that's incredible numbers there so you're the host of our podcast, the samsung developer podcast is that how you got involved with the podcast platform team? tony morelan 1 02 39 exactly they reached out to me when they were first building the service and eventually asked if i would help promote it i said, absolutely that's when they asked me to present an sdc so you can check out my session and learn much more about the new podcast platform eric cloninger 1 02 53 right so the sdc content that is on the website is available for anyone to see at any time so are there any other sessions on the sdc21 website that potential podcasters and developers should check out? tony morelan 1 03 10 yeah, well, i would say what really got me excited was seeing all of the game focus sessions that we had up there so there's one session called galaxy store games focused developer friendly that was a great session on all the new game focused improvements for both gamers and developers and there was another session called games for everyone that samsung instant plays it's another great session for game developers to learn how to bring their html5 games directly to galaxy store, making it easy for users to play games without having to download and install anything eric cloninger 1 03 42 that is an exciting new way for people who are interested in playing casual games to get into something new without having to download hundreds of megabytes of content so i think that's going to be a game changer for all of us yeah, definitely so tony, thank you for giving us some insight on the new podcast platform and also for sitting down with different people associated with sdc21 it was a fantastic virtual conference and it was great to hear about the sessions on one ui, the incubation program smart things in bixby tony morelan 1 04 11 yeah and i also like the interviews that we did on our new watch ecosystem, you know, chatting with dan again on samsung internet that was great and, of course, our new podcast platform i'd like to thank all of my guests today and to you, eric for taking a moment to chat about sdc21 eric cloninger 1 04 27 thank you very much, tony closing 1 04 30 looking to start creating for samsung download the latest tools to code your next app, or get software for designing apps without coding at all sell your apps to the world on the samsung galaxy store check out developer samsung com today and start your journey with samsung tony morelan 1 04 46 the pow! podcast is brought to you by samsung developers and produced us by tony morelan
Learn Developers Podcast
docseason 1, episode 6 previous episode | episode index | next episode this is a transcript of one episode of the samsung developers podcast, hosted by and produced by tony morelan a listing of all podcast transcripts can be found here host tony morelan senior developer evangelist, samsung developers instagram - twitter - linkedin guest ash nazir iot gadgets in this episode of pow, i interview ash nazir, editor in chief for the website iot gadgets ash was an early advocate for tizen os, building a huge following, tizen experts with that success, ash and his team launched the website blog iot gadgets as a way to expand their coverage of hardware, software and all things internet in addition to iot gadgets, ash also runs the largest facebook group dedicated to samsung galaxy watch with over 75 thousand members listen download this episode topics covered tizen os maemo meego linux foundation tizen experts writing for iot gadgets facebook group, samsung galaxy watch more about iot gadgets based in manchester, england, iot gadgets is dedicated to bringing you the best internet of things iot news directly to you we are living in exciting times and are proud to be part of this new technology transcript note transcripts are provided by an automated service and reviewed by the samsung developers web team inaccuracies from the transcription process do occur, so please refer to the audio if you are in doubt about the transcript tony morelan 00 02 hey, i'm tony morelan and this is pow! podcasts of wisdom from the samsung developer program, where we talk about the latest tech new trends and give insight into all the opportunities available for developers looking to create for samsung on today's show, i interview ash nazir, editor in chief for the website iot gadgets what started out as a small blog related to the tizen operating system ash and his team have built a super successful news and information focused website featuring articles on the latest software hardware and all things internet including a facebook group dedicated to samsung smartwatches that has over 75,000 members enjoy so tell me who is ash nazir? ashiq nazir 00 46 so that that's quite a deep question, but i'm going to keep it quite light and you know, you know, not too philosophical as fashion is as i'm basically a network engineer that's my background, and i'm from manchester in england as you can probably tell from the tony morelan 01 01 accent okay, now have you lived in manchester your whole life? ashiq nazir 01 05 yeah, yeah born and bred tony morelan 01 06 so when you were in school did you study network engineering? ashiq nazir 01 10 so i studied, wait for it the mathematics statistics and computing ventures in you'd probably spit them out by then but it was really my work life the jobs that i went to into after that, so i do love it support i did networking, implementation, network design, network infrastructure, and lots of other networking related jobs that was me fully immersed in that field tony morelan 01 42 so you learned after school, when you really dove into the workforce, that's where you got off your experience so when you're not network engineering, what do you like to do for fun? ashiq nazir 01 51 so this is one thing that not a lot of people will kind of understand, but i like fitness i like training and i don't work on the guns or the pythons as much as people think but i have got a modest you know and so for anybody who doesn't know, pythons guns, that sort obviously refers to your arms, which is what most guys, they love building the humps you know, they'll neglect the rest of the body 02 24 phenomenal tony morelan 02 26 yeah which is i'm kind of thinking that's not actually a typical engineer the physique of the typical engineer i think you stand out a little bit at some of these conferences ashiq nazir 02 35 um, once upon a time when i started doing a lot of this thing, and it support it sport was once the forte of the nerd yes, the computer geek in the in the closet you won't let him out when your computer's dying or near death, and then you lock him away after you use fixed your computer and i broke that mold i can tell you that so even a lot of the conferences that i attended over the years yeah, i did stand out a little bit tony morelan 03 08 yeah, definitely, definitely so i want to talk about iot gadgets so iot gadgets is a blog that you run that i know came out of your excitement for tyson os so can you tell me how you first discovered tyson and why you became so passionate about it? ashiq nazir 03 24 okay, now, so this is a little bit of a big question forgive me, i'm going to have to expand on this slightly once upon a time, there was an operating system called miko, and there was this mobile phone that they brought out, which was the nakia and 900 now, this was one of the first linux based true phones and there were lots of things that you could do you had a built in terminal, he had a real web browser that supported flash now, most people don't really know what that entails but once upon a time, you couldn't play flash animations in a mobile web browser it was just unheard of in the likes of apple and other things, you could not do those things so i started following this operating system and i started promoting it on twitter and, you know, unbeknownst to me, i became sort of a bit of an evangelist and before i knew it, i had sort of 6000 people that were following my twitter account wow and a year or so and then, you know, i was invited over to a conference in dublin now, and that was the point where meemo was becoming meego and this was when intel partnered with nakia and then it was a natural fit to me to follow on to meego and, and there's lots of wonderful things that operating system could do unfortunately, there's a change of direction and amiga was discontinued, but then intel continued with it and samsung came on board what we found was tyson which was favored by the linux foundation now for myself, i'm one of the few people that have traveled the world to almost every single ties and conference and summit all over the world being involved in ties in and helping promote it now at that time, i started a website called to ty's an expert's yes, that was to obviously promote tyson tony morelan 05 25 about what year was that? did you were started tyson experts that was back in 2011 so tyson experts at the site, they started how did you go from tyson experts to specifically iot gadgets? ashiq nazir 05 40 well, at the time were tyson experts we covered a lot of blog articles about tyson sdks ids so anybody who doesn't understand so sdks software development kit, ids, integrated development environment, and then what we wanted to do is broaden a bit of the coverage of seidman things that we were involved in and then in 2018, we started iot gadgets and started more dooms some blockchain cryptocurrency stuff, and more stuff related around iot or the internet of things tony morelan 06 16 got it okay so obviously, you've got a lot of writers that are writing for iot gadgets i'm assuming you've got some staff writers i actually did understand, though, that you do welcome guest writers so can you give me a little bit of background about your writers? and if someone wants to submit an article, how did they become a guest writer for iot gadgets? ashiq nazir 06 33 so basically, we've had lots of writers come and go over the years now and what we found is a lot of writers tend to be found on iot gadgets so even samsung themselves, they have hired a few of our writers over the years as well, tony morelan 06 53 really so they're being discovered on iot gadgets that's it that's it so ashiq nazir 06 58 yeah, we welcome people join in and, you know, if people have got the passion, love for writing and computing, by all means they can contact us and an easy way to join in is if you go onto the website, which is www iotgadgets com and just click on write to us, or write for us, shall i say, okay, you're straight through to us tony morelan 07 21 that's excellent so tell me personally, what are some of your favorite topics to cover? ashiq nazir 07 26 and so for myself, we've been very much involved in a lot of smartwatch stuff so that that's a lot of our focus is still smartwatch, based around smartwatches, the apps, the watch faces software updates, now, that kind of thing okay tony morelan 07 45 so another thing that i then when i was doing a little bit of background research on iot gadgets was that you run a pretty big facebook group that is focused on the samsung galaxy watch that i think you've got like almost 75,000 members so talk a little bit about that facebook group and tell me what it has to offer ashiq nazir 08 05 so, with the figure of 75,000, that you mentioned, we're up to actually, let me just have a quick look we're actually over 77,000 tony morelan 08 17 now really? ashiq nazir 08 19 wait not for nobody and neither does our facebook group it's a great place for people to meet each other, who are obviously smartwatch enthusiasts, and developers to showcase their apps, showcase their watch faces, and get relevant feedback you know, we all need to know what works, what doesn't work and it's an excellent place for people to promote themselves tony morelan 08 44 that's wonderful i mean, because i know that's one of the challenges, you know, when i was developing some apps, was you know, you've created this great app, but then how do you get people to, to discover it? and so always trying to find different ways to make yourself known out there is a huge challenge so, you know, knowing that you've got this facebook group with such a huge active community, that's going to be a huge benefit for developers just starting out so that's absolutely amazing to hear so tell me what's in the future for iot gadgets? ashiq nazir 09 16 well down the road, we're actually hoping to start doing a lot more wearable reviews and obviously, at the moment, people are staying at home a fair bit, for some reason, not sure why aren't doing lots more home fitness apps, and okay, for myself, i've got the background i've got the thing to sell that because hey, i love fitness so, just for me, tony morelan 09 43 that's great that's great so tell me what are some of the benefits for developers looking to create apps using tyson? ashiq nazir 09 49 so tyson, one of the propositions right from the outset, was this was going to be an operating system that you can use on a variety of devices, but on smartwatches on the mobile side, it has excellent battery life now, for a lot of people, you they might not comprehend what a brilliant battery life means until they actually try using a device when they're trying to use some fancy app and you know, they can only get half the day to assault so that was something that was brilliant right from the start and you've got solid performance, where like, say, for my smartwatch you know, i've never really known it to crash or have any issues it just performs and that's what you want from a smartwatch you want it to perform you don't want it to be another bane of your existence sure you don't want to be on the phone to tech support hey, what's wrong? you never want to talk to tech support you want to break that relationship and that's what i love about it tony morelan 10 53 that's great that's great so you've been doing this you know iot gadgets for a while i know that you've been experiencing a lot of different tyson app so you got to tell me what is your favorite type of tyson app you know what surprised and impressed you ashiq nazir 11 08 saw myself, i'm going to call back to a bit of that health and fitness stuff so obviously with samsung, they you've got the samsung health app that integrates very nicely with your titan, smartwatch and a lot of your apps that count your calories that count your steps, that they're all that information, then get stored into some health so for myself, i love that thing of, of being able to see things on my watch and then it's all collated and it's available at my fingertips to see how fast i was and what was my heart rate and, and from that data, you can then obviously, analyze your performance and figure out hey, what do you do next? exactly tony morelan 11 53 that's great so can you tell me do you have any ideas of a type an app that you would love to see a developer create ashiq nazir 12 02 you're going to call me boring i'm just going to say, perhaps but so i think it'd be great for having fitness apps where to watch us could actually chat to each other so, you know, for yourself, if you're doing a particular workout somebody else who's doing a particular workout, you can actually it'd be great to see two apps showing you performing against somebody in real time mm hmm i'm not sure obviously, that the use of the screen is really small on a smartwatch, but, you know, just look at some small metrics that can show you who's beating him i'm sure that'd be quite exciting tony morelan 12 39 that would be that would be so you know, i was doing a little bit of a research on this topic recently and saw that it was interesting a lot of the community when it comes to using a smartwatch as it relates to fitness, they don't want to be told that hey, great job you've walked, you know, so many steps today are a great job you've got it chair, you're doing exercise so the information they want to receive is that, hey, it's time to get moving that you haven't reached your goal so it's more of that motivation so it's not the encouragement that, you know, awesome, you did good today, it's more like, get out of the seat and let's get rolling so what's your thought on that sort of approach with an app ashiq nazir 13 23 um, so with that sort of functionality, we've actually got that in the titan smartwatches so every periodically if you haven't moved for a while, it'll actually tell you, hey, head up, do something and they'll give you a little, there'll be little suggestions that will show that, you know, you might want you to swing your torso around, or stand up or flap your arms around and the whole idea is that it can, you know, motivate you to start moving, because they say, you know, a, a journey of 1000 steps starts with one so even if you get up and you start doing something that is obviously a step in the right direction so that's built into the os so something that builds further onto that, another app, that state takes it another step further so then it can collate the number of steps you've possibly done that day and compared it to other days and just giving you a similar sort of, or slightly more encouragement to get you moving tony morelan 14 27 exactly think that'd be really good yeah, no, i completely agree so i know that iot gadgets is put out a lot of different articles, a lot of different blogs can you tell me which article or blog that you're most proud of? ashiq nazir 14 42 so i love the excitement in the ties and community of lights been on devices so we get a huge amount of interest in upcoming devices we're really proud of the fact that we are one of the blogs that come first with all the latest information have, you know what's happening out there? and what are the new devices that are coming out? so, no, soon, there might be some more galaxy watch devices coming out so you just have to go to www iotgadgets com, and you'll find out more that's a shameless plug so tony morelan 15 19 love it, love it so, you know, doing these for all these years, i know that you've had to face some challenges so talk a little bit about some of the challenges that iot gadgets has had to face ashiq nazir 15 30 wow so i think one of the biggest ones that and that we were fortunate enough to face and there's not a lot of websites that have this sort of issue is the amount of traffic we get so initially, like any other blog, you know, you set up, set yourself up with somebody servers out there and is able to handle your traffic and then we'd put some news out there, bang the website's dead is just way too much you know? traffic coming in to too many visitors so then, you know, you upgrade the server and then next time you have some big news, bang, that one's dead and you think, wow, this is deja vu so we've had that situation, unfortunately or fortunately so always good in the blogging world to get lots of traffic that, you know, there's so many times we had to upgrade ourselves to get to the point where we can click something and we're confident the surfers not going to die i'm going to say something i mean, we're going to publish a particular post, and the server is going to be able to handle the traffic so that's been the one unfortunately, that's been one of the biggest hurdles we've had to overcome tony morelan 16 41 and it's obviously a good challenge to have to face i mean, yeah, yeah, yeah ashiq nazir 16 48 yeah, you know, it's one of them things you might you've definitely doing something right if you've got that problem yeah tony morelan 16 55 so tell me what is the best way for people to contact iot gadgets? no, you'd mentioned the website are there any other ways that people can contact iot gadgets? ashiq nazir 17 05 yes, certainly so we've we're obviously on the web emails that are very good one so if you fire off an email to contact@iotgadgets com is a mailbox that's always monitored we're obviously on social media, which twitter, facebook, instagram, and they're all monitored as well so tell me what those your social media handles are so it's iot gadgets across all of them and yeah, they're, they're all monitored and you can see you'll hopefully get a reply within 24 hours, possibly instantly i'm awake at three o'clock in the morning wonderful, which hasn't happened in the past now tony morelan 17 48 yes, when you when you put out a big blog in the in your, your monitoring your servers, i'm sure you're up at all hours ashiq nazir 17 54 well, the world the world doesn't sleep unfortunately so even i've gone to some conferences i've got introduced to people and they've turned around and say, do you ever sleep? because they realize what time zone i'm in, what time zone they're in and the two things don't match tony morelan 18 13 i think what you're saying is that you want a developer to create an app for you for your smartwatch that says, hey, ash, it's time to go to sleep now couldn't sleep just ashiq nazir 18 21 yeah and it just automatically switches everything off there we go tony morelan 18 25 so excellent ash, it was wonderful, chatting with you and getting to know a little bit more about not only you but also iot gadgets, super excited about what you guys are doing and looking forward to reading some more blogs about upcoming information so again, thank you very much for being on the podcast today ashiq nazir 18 39 hey, tony it's been really great being here and thanks for having us on and thanks for taking the time once you appreciate it outro 18 48 looking to start creating for samsung, download the latest tools to code your next app, or get software for designing apps without coding at all sell your apps to the world on the samsung galaxy store check out develop samsung com today and start your journey with samsung the pow! podcast is brought to you by the samsung developer program and produced by tony morelan
Learn Developers Podcast
docseason 3, episode 7 previous episode | episode index | next episode this is a transcript of one episode of the samsung developers podcast, hosted by and produced by tony morelan a listing of all podcast transcripts can be found here host tony morelan senior developer evangelist, samsung developers instagram - twitter - linkedin guests guy merin, senior director of engineering, surface duo developer experience, microsoft ade oshineye, senior staff developer advocate, google søren lambæk, developer relations engineer, samsung foldables, games not only do we chat about the emerging trends in the foldable industry but how companies are working together to help developers create for this new and innovative technology listen download to this episode topics covered foldable industry trends growth of foldables target audience making foldables mainstream benefits of the foldable form factor extending a traditional app to a foldable device process for supporting foldables foldable device example apps consumer adoption challenges developer opportunities resources for developers companies working together on foldables helpful links large screen/foldable guidance large screen app quality jetpack windowmanager jetpack slidingpanelayout jetpack windowmanager foldable/dual-screens surface duo layout libraries surface duo android emulator figma - surface duo design kit surface duo blog surface duo twitch surface duo twitter adopting native language discover quality apps on large screens foldables design/development perspectives learn about foldables case studies 5 steps to large screen designing understanding layout code lab testing window size classes jetnews different screen sizes migrate to responsive layouts compose/activity embedding unfolding gaming potential samsung remote test lab samsung developer program website samsung developer program newsletter samsung developer program blog samsung developer program news samsung developer program facebook samsung developer program instagram samsung developer program twitter samsung developer program youtube samsung developer program linkedin tony morelan linkedin guy merin, microsoft, linkedin ade oshineye, google, linkedin søren lambæk, samsung, linkedin transcript note transcripts are provided by an automated service and reviewed by the samsung developers web team inaccuracies from the transcription process do occur, so please refer to the audio if you are in doubt about the transcript tony morelan 00 01 hey, i'm tony morelan and this is the samsung developers podcast, where we chat with innovators using samsung technologies, award winning app developers and designers, as well as insiders working on the latest samsung tools welcome to season three, episode seven recently i hosted a roundtable discussion on developing for foldable devices not only do we chat about the emerging trends in the foldable industry, but how companies are working together to help developers create for this new and innovative technology enjoy today's show, we're doing something pretty special i've got three guests on the podcast all from leading companies in the foldable space i've got guy merin, senior director of engineering on the surface duo developer experience team at microsoft guy merin 00 53 hi tony, good morning great to be here tony morelan 00 55 excellent i've also got ade oshineye, senior staff developer advocate at google ade oshineye 01 00 hi nice to be here tony morelan 01 03 and i've also got søren lambæk, developer relations engineer at samsung søren lambæk 01 09 hello good to be here tony morelan 01 11 this is amazing i've got all of you on the podcast at the same time we actually haven't tried this format before so let's take him for a ride and see how much fun we can have let me start with guy over at microsoft tell me who is guy merin? guy merin 01 25 hey, yeah, hey, folks so i'm guy the journey in microsoft a few years back started that windows went through the windows mobile, because mobile gadgets and devices are really my passion and then the last five or so years, i've been working full time on android, building a couple of software products, and recently the surface duo so this mobile and android is really my passion and i'm really at my dream job now working with developers, you know, reaching out really great on the personal level, i got recently into mountain climbing so just last weekend, we had a big expedition to summit, one of the washington mountains i live in seattle in washington, okay and that was a very, very fun experience that i found a lot of similarities to, you know, projects we have at work, climbing a mountain and summit thing is really a project on its own with preparation and planning and found a lot of interesting similarities tony morelan 02 29 it gives you a lot of time to think also, i'm sure that when you're climbing so are you like with ropes and rappelling or yeah, rope really guy merin 02 38 is, is more snow so it's ropes and ice axes and stuff but oh, gosh tony morelan 02 45 that is great how many feet would you say? was the summit? guy merin 02 50 close to 11,000 tony morelan 02 52 wow, that is absolutely impressive what was your journey to get to the state of washington? were you born there? or is this? the accent i'm picking up? i'm not quite sure is from the northwest? guy merin 03 07 no, no so no, i was born and raised in israel okay and i moved over to washington eight years ago, i've been working at microsoft in israel, actually doing some fun stuff with windows phone in israel and then pretty much my wife wanted to move over to seattle and that that made us take the trip and we love it here tony morelan 03 32 so now let's move over to google tell me who is ade oshineye? ade oshineye 03 38 so i work in android developer relations i've worked all over the different aspects of google over the last 15 years before that was in consultancy, when i'm not at a desk in front of cameras and things i'm out with a camera, taking photos in zurich, where we have really nice mountains that i like to climb them by sitting in a train that just gently takes you to the top and then i also play badminton and play go so between that i'm pretty busy i tony morelan 04 05 wonder if i understand you actually were born and raised in england is that correct? yes ade oshineye 04 09 so i'm an east londoner but now i live in switzerland, which is strange and very different to east london but i also live in the middle of a whole collection of british shops, so that i can get british food very easily really? okay yes tony morelan 04 27 tell me how did you get involved with foldables at google? ade oshineye 04 30 well, let's see well, me specifically, i mean, i started out with the samsung flip and then we've got this planet of surface duo for us as a company, it's more around the whole beat together not the same idea that the point of the entity ecosystem is that all of these oem can try different things users can try different kinds of experiences developer can try to serve all of them and we power all of that with the platform tony morelan 04 57 and from samsung tell me who is søren lambæk? søren lambæk 05 02 hello, i work at samsung as a developer relations engineer and basically, i building relationships between the games industry and samsung there are so many mobile games out there so we were reaching out to them at a technical level and try to help their games to run smooth on certain devices on a more personal level, i am one of those artists that just got obsessed with programming sure so my background is actually a lot of with art, drawing and music and that kind of thing but i just could see, the programming hat was so powerful so i just, i got this obsession is programming tony morelan 05 48 excellent and i know that you guys can't see on the podcast but soren has some beautiful guitars behind him and before we hit the record button, we were all having a nice conversation about music now, i understand you were born in chile, but raised in england that correct søren lambæk 06 04 and so i was born i was born in chile that's correct and i was raised up in denmark, hence my name and my name is danish and okay because then i guess such a small country and at the time, i wanted to do get a career we didn't have any games industry in denmark so i decided i wanted to go to england and when university studying games design, because there was art, but then i realized programming that's where the future is, for me and then so i was one of the only students that went from art to programming is usually the other way around yeah, tony morelan 06 47 so yeah, i would definitely think so so let's talk foldables back in 2019, samsung released the galaxy fold, which was the first foldable device to really hit the mainstream market since then, other companies like microsoft, motorola, huawei, have released foldable devices and in such a short amount of time, we've seen some really great improvements with this technology guy, you've been from microsoft, what are some of the trends that you've noticed in the foldable industry? guy merin 07 17 some of the trends one we're seeing, as you said, more, more oems picking those up? are you seeing more and more companies bringing for the world? and it's really starting to become a commodity but the cool thing about it that each one has their own different angle to it so you know, for the microsoft one, it's, you know, mainly around productivity and two screens, for others is mainly around more real estate or something that is a small form that can then go to, to a bigger form and it's all really about the form factors and the posters that you can really do with it so how does the phone react when it's folded when it's open when it's tilted 90 degrees? and i think we'll see more of those in the future tony morelan 08 07 are they are you seeing different trends for the way developers are designing and building apps? ade oshineye 08 12 so i think we're seeing three main trends one is the oems exploring the space of possible designs, does the device folding fold out full vertically filled horizontally full three times, there's so many different things oems are doing second stylus is becoming more and more mainstream, that's changing the set of available postures and then the final thing is the way keyboards and trackpads are blurring the distinctions between phones, phablets tablets so the whole notion of what is an android app is becoming this flexible, multi-dimensional space and there's always people exploring that space and trying new things yeah, tony morelan 08 55 yeah soren, what about the growth in this industry? is this been something that you think, you know, over the past several years, it's really been, you know, going much higher? søren lambæk 09 04 yeah so last year, we had 150% growth, and we are expecting that in the future, more and more people seem to get foldable phones and when it comes to games, it does have like quite a lot of benefits because you can use the second screen if you're put it in like a folder but sure you can you can change this from full screen to a two completely different mode where the bottom screen, you can use it for items or mini map and that kind of thing tony morelan 09 35 yeah, yeah you know, this technology is so new that it's at this time, i think we're still trying to figure out what is this this target audience a day? what are your thoughts on who is the target audience for foldables? ade oshineye 09 49 well, i think a good way of thinking about it would be to look at the flips and the surface drill as capturing the two sets of ordinances we see there are very often younger people woohoo, looking for cool new experiences, i tend to see a lot of those people walking around with a samsung flip but then you also see a set of people at the high end with a lot more money tend to be more business people, they tend to have the larger the fold or a duel or something like that, that has a stylus that runs multiple apps at the same time, that sort of almost a replacement laptop and those are the two sets of people i tend to see using foldables tony morelan 10 25 guy, do you have any thoughts on them? on the demographic of who is attracted to foldables? guy merin 10 31 i don't see it as a demographic thing i think i think it will become a commodity that more and more users across the world will? we'll see i think right now we're still seeing trends, because he's on the higher end, of course, yeah so we're seeing trend around there but when this becomes more of a commodity, and i think it will, and more of a mainstream device, i don't think it's going to be a demographic thing, just like we've seen with other form, form factors that are spread across the world tony morelan 11 00 yeah, yeah in certain you'd mentioned about gamers and tell me your thoughts on you know why something like foldable device would be attracted to the gaming community? søren lambæk 11 09 well, obviously, a big screen will have a big effect, not only can you see like a lot of graphics do you like and can change and you can have like, a different benefits doing tony morelan 11 20 that so what would it take for foldables to become more mainstream? søren lambæk 11 24 the price is it's a major one for reforms are quite pricey sure, reducing the price wouldn't make it more accessible for a lot of people tony morelan 11 34 yeah and i also think that really trying to teach developers how to build apps, you know, more education on app adoption is also important søren lambæk 11 43 yeah, definitely, we see a lot of games developer don't even consider foldable phones yet so i hope that is something that is going to change, where they could like start maybe changing the ui before they actually building the game guy merin 11 58 i think it would only if i may add one thing i think it's is a triangle of three things there is, you know, the users and the users’ need to see the benefit of why they should, you know, try a foldable phone or a large screen and then what drives that is apps so the more apps that we see that utilize it, that gives them benefits over using just a single screen, smaller device, the more apps that will use things like side by side or split screen or drag and drop between and just productivity and thinks that users can get more out of these apps when running on these new form factors i think that's another key factor and i think the third piece of this triangle is, in order to make the app better on those, you need to support it, that sdk level and the platform yeah, that's a lot of work that has been done by everybody here so mainly by google, because they of course, own the platform so the more we will see those things as standard like jetpack compose so how do you support foldables? there? how do you support all the other sdks, the more they will come native, the better the apps will get, the better the users will benefit from them? and i think that triangle, doing it correctly, will make it much more mainstream in the future ade oshineye 13 20 i agree with that i think one other thing that we've been pushing is getting developers across the chasm of thinking about this so we have a code lab, we put together with microsoft shows developers how to build for a world where the devices can be radically different sizes i mean, on my desk here, i have a samsung flip and a samsung ultra and they are radically different sizes, one of them can fold to be even smaller so if you want to build for both of these devices, and all the things in between, you have to think about am i going to be a responsive design app or when adaptive app, i had to think about which layouts i'm going to support which postures are going to support which aspect ratios, which resolutions, and developers for a long time, we've been able to sort of not really think very hard about that because most phones for a long time were fairly similar sizes now, the same kindle app that has to fold nicely on a surface duo has to also work on a giant tablet, for example, we have duo and meet and the same apk more or less that runs on your phone also runs on your television when we think of this as large screens, the screens can be very tony morelan 14 35 large what about google's quality guidelines? so the challenge for ade oshineye 14 39 us with quality guidelines is we don't want to stifle innovation but we do want to make sure that when a user downloads an app from our store, that it works well on the device, and that there are there's a well-lit path for developers in how do i give users the best possible experience so we have fatal guidelines and implemented shouldn't advice on what is a high-quality experience and then we have tiers of quality, so that you don't have to take a big jump, you don't have to eat the elephant in one bite you can, i think it's eat the rhinoceros in one bite, you can do it in, in lots of little bites so there are steps you can take to improve your quality and we have an easy-to-understand website that shows you, here's all the things you haven't done yet and you can decide which ones to invest in and when tony morelan 15 29 yeah, and i'll mention here that i know throughout this podcast that you guys will be referencing lots of resources for developers to really learn more about how to create for foldables, i'll be sure to include links in the show notes so that you guys can easily find this content so guy, tell me who do you think would benefit by developing for the foldable form factor and why guy merin 15 52 i think everybody will benefit from it the bottom of the funnel is the apps and the user so the users would benefit the most but i think you're asking more about the developers, i think every developer should look at is how they said here before my app is not going to run now only on a single screen, small device, it will span across others, every developer should think about their app what else can i do now that i have more real estate? and again, if it's a game, okay, what do i do with the second screen? how will my game maybe if i run the game, in a split screen with discord on the other side, because i'm using that for gaming as well, to start thinking about all these new scenarios that your app can now do? how can i provide content to the app that sits just beside me with drag and drop functionalities with these kinds of things? and i think every app, every developer, can benefit from those and you should start thinking about that, because this is preparing for, for the future and for more and more of these devices showing in market yeah, tony morelan 17 02 and i know the other day, a day and i were actually having a conversation about multi app user journeys ade oshineye 17 08 so we've tried to move away from thinking of use cases or scenarios to what we call cjs critical user journeys and part of that is because if i'm at home during the pandemic, i tend to have google docs open with meeting notes and then google meat open that if you move that to a foldable, well, that's one screen each but then i need to drag and drop things across them which means both developers need to think, am i a good citizen? does my app play well with others? historically, developers have tended to think about the user journey only within their own app but if you're a video chat app, you need to think okay, how do i work well, with a game with video content, somebody's watching, if i'm a video app, do i have picture in picture, if i have picture and picture, it unlocks all sorts of interesting new user journeys for the user if i'm a game, and i support multi window scenarios, it becomes possible somebody to play a game and live, stream it or play a game and have a chat conversation going on at the same time so trying to think about the user journey that's not just inside your one app, but it's across your app and other apps or even across multiple instances of your app tony morelan 18 17 store and tell me, what should the developer with an existing app do to extend it to foldables? søren lambæk 18 23 so there's quite a lot of sdk is that can be used already jetpack? windows manager is an android library that can help you with detecting if your app is expanding over multiple screens or not tony morelan 18 39 what about specifically game developers? maybe someone who's developing, you know, for unity or for unreal? are there resources out there to help them? søren lambæk 18 47 yeah, so samsung got like, some tutorials that will help you to set up phone apps for unity and unreal, boston guy merin 18 56 tony, if i may i can add one thing on the first question, what can developers do with an existing app, we put up a three-step guide and it's not specifically for the microsoft surface device for large screen on older foldables and the really the three steps are crawl, walk, run so you should start with taking your app and just trying it out on these new form factors if you have access to one of these devices, just try it there if you don't, there is emulators for everything for foldables for a duo for a large screen so just try your app on the emulator that's step one just see that it behaves well on these new form factors using an email lender step two is what we call the low hanging fruit so don't super invest but start small, as they say, maybe think about how can my app behave when it's running within other apps? so maybe support drag and drop either is a source of or is or is a destination cause doing picture and picture, things like that these are things that are super easy that you know, there's samples, there's code snippets, and you can just go in and copy paste into your app and just support that these are really small additions you can do and then it will really shine on those new devices and step three, is where really all the magic can happen you know, you have more real estate now so there's many new design patterns, you can think about lease details, you can think about a companion plane and a few others so what now will you do in your app that, you know, you have more real estate, you can do things differently? this is step three, which is i think, you know, where all the big value will come but it's a journey towards getting there ade oshineye 20 43 definitely, i think one other thing you may want to include is, at the most basic level, you check things like if i rotate my phone, does your device crash? does the app crash? or does it handle it? and then use thing? okay, so you handle rotation, you don't lose state if i'm halfway through typing a message, and i accidentally rotate my tablet, do you lose my message? that's bad yeah so that continuity is an important thing, all the way up to things like handling hinge occlusion so if you've got a surface duo, there's a hinge down the middle, you've got to remember that there we have an api for that, handling different postures of the device, and even trying to see if you can use those postures to offer new functionality but for a lot of developers, it's stepping back thinking about all the different contexts in which people are going to try to use your app and then making sure that you've handled them tony morelan 21 31 yeah, and guy you had mentioned about them testing, i wanted to also bring up that samsung has their remote tests lab, where you can online access a real device for testing your app so another great resource for developers to, to work with guy merin 21 49 definitely, it's also that in the emulator, the emulator is also an amazing resource, because you can run it locally, you can run it on the cloud, we have some workflows that connect to a cloud emulator so every time you know we have a few samples, so every time we do a check in for the sample, it spins off an emulator and test it looks great so we have all these test steps and none of that is specific to us to the to the demo, you can run it with any other devices well, tony morelan 22 15 tell me what is the figma design kit guy merin 22 18 figma design kit is a tool for designers to start thinking about foldables and large screens and dual screens so when we started the journey with developers, we first were thinking about the developers, how do we support you with sdks and with samples and with documentation, that's step two, actually, step one is thinking about your designs and then we started looking at what are the tools that designers use so figma is one of them and there are others so we just created figma design kit for foldables so it lists out all the layouts that are possible again, the list detail, the companion pane and a few others, gives you all the frames and really helps you think about the scenarios you want to cover in your in your app for these new form factors and then you start working with the developers and the sdk, there's actually a step three that we're trying to do in the future, which is, how do we make it easy? taking a figma design kit or another slope and making that into code? that's going to be the next step in the future? tony morelan 23 30 are they tell me about the jetpack window manager and the jet news demo app? ade oshineye 23 36 so like many people, we have quite some quite old demos that were written in a world where you had a phone and you had a tablet and so we like everybody else had to think about, okay, how do we change this to handle different postures, different aspect ratios so we have an article where we walked through the process we went through to use jetpack window manager to handle a lot of these configuration changes to handle continuity, rotation, a lot of those things so we got actually pretty good article about this i think one of the things we don't touch on in that article that i think is really important, is if i have an existing app that people like, and it's too expensive for me to do a complete rewrite, how do i start adding some of the new things into it so we have a new thing called activity embedding, which lets you get a foot in the door of compose, or we're starting to add these new, more complex layouts so maybe your app was just, oh, i have a bunch of cards that go vertically up and down the screen but it's actually no longer a phone it's a device that folds out is not twice the size so now i need to think, okay, i need to go to a list detail view gmail is a good example of this you do that unfold or you rotate and now you have so much more screen estate the challenge is, how do i embed the new more complex layout index? system set of layouts i already have without having to do a rewrite so there's a lot of that functionality that we're trying to show people because we don't want to fall in the trap of the only way you can get to the new world is to burn everything down and start again we want to give people an incremental path from where they are to where they need to get tony morelan 25 18 i was at gdc, this past year in samsung had a great presentation this morning did you get a chance to see that that presentation at gdc? where they talked about developing for foldables? søren lambæk 25 30 yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, it was one of our team members, mike there was doing a presentation tony morelan 25 37 yeah, i'll make sure to include a link to that to that presentation it was great because they covered foldable optimizations for game engines like unity and unreal, talked about android jetpack apis, and window manager showed examples of things like flex mode and ui scaling, and even had an engineer from unity talk about adaptive performance 4 0 ade tell me what should a developer consider when writing a new app for foldables? ade oshineye 25 46 my immediate reaction to this is, first of all, should i use views? or should i use compose, but i'm talking to more and more of my colleagues, they all go? well, obviously, they should compose because composers the future so the official google recommendation, if you're starting from scratch, start with compose, it will mature as your app matures the other things to think about is what makes foldable special, it's the fact they have all these postures, they have all of these different kinds of usage scenarios that they offer and then you want to avoid littering your code with designs that are attached to a specific screen size, or a specific aspect ratio, or a specific resolution and instead, you've got to decide am i adaptive or responsive? will i try to scale the same design? or will i move the components around when the posture or the orientation or the size changes? it's a difference between an app with a list of cards and the cards just get bigger? and an app that says, well, when you rotate me, i go to a list detail view? tony morelan 26 52 guy, what are your thoughts on what a developer should consider when they're writing a new app for foldables guy merin 26 59 so i think a developer should consider a couple of things one, there's folding features specifically for duo, we have, we have a hinge in the middle so if you have like controls, do you want to put them in the middle, or maybe you want to lay them out a little? a little differently for game developers, we did a lot of work for example, with xbox so when you play a game, you can have the controls on one screen and the game on the other screen so the controls, you know, are now have their own dedicated space so maybe you can do some stuff with it so for example, the one thing we did is depending on where you are in the game itself, the controller themes and the way they look change so if you're now a pirate on a ship, and you're in a sword fight or something, the controller is changed to be a sword, for example, or things like that and then other considerations are the posters so what happens when the device is folded? what happens when it's open? what happens when you rotate it? and all these will change the layout of the app and show different controls and options for the use of yeah, tony morelan 28 12 yeah soren, what would you say are some of the common issues that could come up when designing around foldables? søren lambæk 28 22 i think it's important for developers to consider the ui because on the samsung fold, when the phone is folded, we got like a single display so the aspect ratio on that one is very different to when you're when you got it unfolded so the ui, you will have much less space for ui so that is something that's very important that the transition from going from single display to what's the display, that the ui will change so it fits, there's no point on like, you can see all the ui on when it's when it's unfolded and then when you go to the single screen, half of the ui is not a clickable or you can see it so that's very, very important that you test that on your on your phone tony morelan 29 11 yeah, and i know it's a gdc presentation that's one of the things that mike covered was how to have your game go from the single screen and then when you open up the device, how it transitions to the to the door screen søren lambæk 29 25 yeah, exactly ade oshineye 29 26 oh, actually, that reminds me one thing i, i keep mentioning continuity and mostly people think, oh, i have my device, let's say to tablet like this ultra i have in my hand and in in the vertical orientation that's easy and if i rotate, i don't want to lose my state that's typically what we've always meant by continuity but once you have a device that falls, especially if you've got something that has three screens and how to screen them into screens, i may launch something on the outer screen then i open it up and then the app has to move on or the activity as we found that out the screen to now maybe spread out across both screens and then if i fold it the other way, so i'm now on one of the inner screens, the app has to not lose state now we have a bunch of guidance on how you define normal apps, where it gets especially tricky is when it's things like camera, where you may not just be moving an activity across screens, but it may actually move it across cameras okay, so this is one of those places where, if you have a real device in your hand, you can see it and you can see how for a user, this would be a very comfortable, obvious thing, they would expect holding the device in their hands but for you sitting behind your keyboard, it might not leap out as you as an obvious thing for a user to do yeah, so if you sit with erica, with us a samsung flip, you can take a selfie on it, but you might just very easily rotating your hand and because you want to take a selfie with the other camera for your app that's a very complicated thing for the user it's the most natural thing in the world sure so it's important to think about continuity across the different surfaces of the foldable yeah, guy merin 31 07 yeah and let me give, let me give another example with an email app can be gmail, it can be outlook, it can be whatever it whatever you're using and i think foldable or dual screen is really a great way to read emails so if, if until now, i was used to, you know, in the morning to get to my emails on a single screen device so i just have a list of emails, and then i go into each one of them, read it, go back, go to each one of them, read it, go back reply, what have you, if you don't have a larger screen, you can have the least detail so i see all the emails in one place, i click them and then the other side, i see the actual email that i need to address and now if i have to, is a lengthy email, if i have to read it, i can rotate the device and then i get into this a form, that i across the whole screen, i just see the whole email as detail and then when i hit the reply button, it can go into this laptop mode that you know, the keyboard goes from the bottom and then i could start replying to it and when i'm done, i get back to the least detail up to my next email so it really can serve as a laptop replacement yeah, because you have a larger screen, you can do pretty much in a productive manner, which you can do with your regular pc or mac tony morelan 32 27 yeah, for sure so guy, do you think it's a misconception that developers need to do a lot of custom work, that's only going to be that's only going to add value to a foldable device guy merin 32 38 i think it's a misconception, definitely, there's actually not a lot of work you need to do as i said before, you could start small with just adding drag and drop functionality or picture in picture and that will work across every place, every form factor around large screen small screen, and you're using native api's and sdk to support a foldable, you don't need to pick up another sdk for it it's all supported natively and whatever you do will work across all these devices and again, in the future, it can work on the tv or other on a watch so whatever your app will do, consider all these layouts provide layout screens, for each one of those new form factors, a single app will work on all of it ade oshineye 33 28 yeah, i think something i did this weekend is i went and dug up all my old android devices, i have android devices, going back to the g one and even the ones before the g one that i'm not sure i'm allowed to talk about in public, all the way to the latest ones from today and as developer, handling all of these different scenarios, is actually increasing the maintainability of your app because if i think about the screen on the g one and the resolution of that, and i think about that, compared to the resolution, the pixel six, it's a huge jump, and the screens are so much bigger so think about the kinds of devices we'll have five years from now, how much bigger how much higher resolution will those screens be? how often do you want to rewrite your app between now and then? versus oh, it's just a bigger screen at all it's a different posture and being able to make it a relatively simple migration or maintenance that versus a yet another rewrite tony morelan 34 31 so tell me, soren, what are some good examples of existing apps that are taking advantage of the foldable form factor? søren lambæk 34 39 so we have seen a lot of retro games actually, you are utilizing the phone a lot so because retro games don't really have that much heavy graphics so they've got like, plenty of space that they can use so we have seen where people are using a virtual gamepad on one screen and using live small mini maps and that kind of thing so that's okay seems but i also think that like when you're watching it like a video and you start like folding it, and you just see the video slide up on just one screen, because it assumes that you want to put it on tape or something i think that is really clever and i would like to see more of that thinking tony morelan 35 19 in a day, what are some great examples of existing apps that are taking advantage of the foldable form factor? ade oshineye 35 24 so we see a lot, but actually, my two favorites were shown to me by guy, one was a battleships game where you basically have the device in a tabletop posture, and you basically rotate it the other way for the other person to play oh, i thought that was beautiful yes love that and the second thing he showed me was just the kindle yes so basically be able to have the kindle open like a book, but also be able to fold it the other way so like a like a cheap paperback, where you fold it and you hold him in one hand exactly i would never do that for any of my books, but been able to do that and like surface to that field like that is so nicely that i think was really compelling tony morelan 36 02 and that was the first thing when i when i pulled out the surface duo showed my wife, the first thing she did was grab it in, folded it around like it was a traditional paperback book that was so easy to hold she absolutely loved that that aspect of it guy tell me, what are some other examples of some great apps that are already taking advantage of a foldable, guy merin 36 25 i think two kinds of app one is apps for consuming and i think the kindle is a good example of flipping a page, which is supernatural i really liked that experience as well, but also apps around creation so for example, if you need to edit a video, or edit your photos, or edit the blog post, it's very easy with dual screen or with the foldable or our screen to have the actual video or photo on one side, and on the other side, all the controls, and then you hit a control and you see it real time, what happens, how does it change the other, it's really, really helpful to create and edit your memories that way so it's really a great creation tool, as well, not just for consuming tony morelan 37 12 yeah, i could definitely see that also be a great value with a program like adobe acrobat you know, i'm often editing pdfs and so i could see that would be a great use case for, you know, not only being able to read documents, but then you know, making edits ade oshineye 37 28 i can also imagine with that sort of notebook, passport, sort of novel types, device, where if it's light enough and thin enough, you can sort of fold it in half with a stylus, and just scribble it like you would have a normal notebook, basically, like a moleskin but it's a moleskin with an infinite number of pages there's, guy merin 37 49 there's also psychological sense here, about the folding, and that you can close it so for example, if i'm writing or scribbling or journaling with a stylus on the device, when it's open, when i'm done, consider if you're doing it on a regular notebook, what are you doing, you're closing it, and it gives you a sense that you're done you accomplished something and i think this is where foldables really shine because you're doing something you're reading an email, you're journaling, you're even playing a game, once you're done, you close it, even you hear that little click yes and it gives you a sense, you know, it's like checking a box in your to do and i think this is something that you don't see in other form factors and you see it only on this folding devices that really helps users stay in their flow and then move away to, you know, do something else that is not related to the phone so leave it off and you know, digital wellbeing and stuff tony morelan 38 46 yeah, it's funny that you say that, because that was the one of the first things i noticed when i closed my duo hearing that little click sound it's sitting on my desk i was like, ah, okay, put that away ade oshineye 38 56 yeah, yeah, that's actually not the interesting effectiveness is that with the foldables, initially, because of weight, and then eventually, because of new user journeys, they switch from being in your trouser pocket, at least for me to being in a jacket pocket and that's something changes all the places i use them tony morelan 39 14 interesting yeah and i know when i first got my hands on the z flip, folding it to that such small form factor and putting it in my pocket just felt so much better than some of the bulky devices that i seem to carry around with me søren lambæk 39 30 i actually heard that people who using the ac flip, use the phone less because they have to open it manually so for them, it actually helps them a lot to not like spend too much time on the phone so there, i guess there's some psychological effect ade oshineye 39 47 i mean, i've had the opposite with my flip in that because it's so small, and because it sorts of made me take more selfies i don't usually take selfies because well, i usually have a real camera with me, but i have this thing, it's small enough that it's in the back pocket of my jeans and it's just arms were nice and i would normally just take a photo of the place but as thing i can pull it out, then basically without having to unfold it, or unlock it just pointed on my face, click selfie, put it in my pocket again so for that one particular user journey, i use it more tony morelan 40 20 interesting yeah, i could, i could totally see that but tell me a day, what are some of the challenges that foldable technology needs to overcome to increase consumer adoption? ade oshineye 40 31 i mean, if i look at the variety of devices, i have the flip back pocket of jeans every time when it comes to the fold, i have to sort of look at the jacket i'm wearing and think about, okay, will the material the lining handles the weight, or should it go into my bag, if i'm carrying this surface duo, it's light enough that i can just casually put it in my jacket pocket, it'll be fine but it's too bulky for me to put in the front pocket of any of my jeans and it feels dangerous to put in the back pocket so weight is an issue cost is also an issue because the more expensive it is, the more careful you have to be when you put it away to think, will it be safe in this pocket but as these things get thinner, lighter, cheaper, and we discover more and more user journeys, i think that's going to be really interesting if i give an example, i have the surface level one, and it's great but every now and again, i see somebody surface two or two and i go, oh, they have a pen oh, that's interesting and i find myself thinking, well, that might be an interesting upgrade if it were thin enough and light enough, but then i'm thinking, but will it fit in my jacket? pocket? tony morelan 41 37 sure that's interesting guy tell me what do you think are some of the challenges that the foldable technology needs to overcome? i guy merin 41 45 think the first obvious one is the price point, they're still more expensive than other form factors so i think we're going to see the prices, the prices go down? for sure i think that would be probably my biggest one i think we did not hit the point of, you know, apps, enough apps are there, we'll see more and more apps, and then everybody will want to join the party i don't think we are in that stage yet and i think that will come soon tony morelan 42 13 and so on, what are your thoughts on what sort of challenges that the foldable technology needs to overcome? søren lambæk 42 19 the foldable phone at the moment is very bulky, and it's very heavy, it will be great that it was if it's lighter, i'd know that people that it actually puts people off some people that it is so bulky and heavy, where they will rather i get the flip phone for that reason i also think speaking of the flip, i think battery life is an it's very important i don't know how much bigger battery they can put in them without even giving more bulky and heavier but when you have like on the samsung one, there are three displays and if you use it for game watching films, it's really draining battery so that is i will say that is the big ones for me tony morelan 43 03 so guy, what resources would you recommend for developers interested in creating foldable apps, guy merin 43 09 i think you know; our modal is really meeting the developers where they're at so continue using whatever you're using if you're using a mac or pc, we have emulators for each one of those things so i would start with just following the recommendations you know, we have documentation samsung has google, start there, download an emulator, try it out and then just write a sample app, there was a code lab that we built with google, you could try there to test some of these new capabilities on the emulator on a specific device and then start your journey from there to commutations samples emulator we post a weekly blog, a weekly developer blog every thursday, that brings new information, for example, how to write again, how to use drag and drop, how to run side by side with another app, how to address the post changes, well, layout changes so we have a blog every week that covers code it's a developer blog with specific code and tips and tricks, try those resources and just reach out if you have a question and if you're blocked on anything, we are really here to help you out with your journey because we're creating the future and we want you to be successful with your app on all these new form factors tony morelan 44 34 yeah are there any conferences or events the that you know that you'll be attending? guy merin 44 40 definitely so google io was just completed a few weeks back, a lot of talks around large screens, you can still follow that and see some of the talks droidcon is coming up we just had droidcon san francisco a couple of days ago, and the next one is in berlin, and it's a worldwide conference google's probably going to have a few to prevent samsung has a few events microsoft build was just a couple of weeks ago and we also had to talk about tony morelan 45 08 foldables excellent and i know a day you shared with me a large list of links tells me, you know, what are some of these resources the developers can utilize ade oshineye 45 19 so for us, it's really three buckets there are introductory materials, such as our quality guidelines that i think are really important to sort of absorb into your bones so you can feel what a good experience will be like, and it will nudge you as you go on then we have a large collection of design resources, often at the material design website, but also woven through developers@android com and then the final piece is a set of resources for the developers things like how do i do testing the code library with microsoft but those three buckets of resources are the right ones for you to start with i'd also recommend come to door con berlin, were given a talk a teammate of mine, romano, france will be their co presenting with somebody from microsoft and again, you can go grill those people get lots of questions and of course, there will be future android events, where we'll have more stuff to share tony morelan 46 14 wonderful insight on what does samsung have to offer to help developers søren lambæk 46 20 so sometimes we got our own a game dev space where we posted blocks and tutorials, articles and we will have some when this podcast is out, we should have some tutorials available we also got the gdc presentation that mike did tony morelan 46 37 excellent so any more thoughts as we close the podcasts on this new technology in foldables ade oshineye 46 45 from my perspective, looking at my desk, i've got a flip duo, a samsung tab and that really captures just the variety of form factors that are happening on the android platform and i look forward to seeing more i think that's one of the things i learned here is that there's so much going on and there's so much more to come søren lambæk 47 06 i'm really looking forward to the future to see what new technology and what new devices coming out how the foldable phones will hopefully be more like lighter and more affordable and yeah, i'm really looking forward to see how developers is going to utilize them for all kinds of different apps guy merin 47 28 i think i think this is super exciting times, we are really in a pivotal point of, you know, something new, something a new generation of four factors evolving, and it's happening right now we started seeing the version one of the foldables and tools, we're now seeing a second version and a third version and i think we're going to see more of that and this is just amazing we are creating the future right now and i think developers are the most important part of it, because it will succeed based on the apps, and what developers will do with it and this is a great time now to join this ride and really create the future because i think 10 years from now, we will see things that really start happening right now with apps that take you to the next steps with foldables yeah, tony morelan 48 21 my key takeaway with the foldable industry is how many of these big companies in this industry are working together to further the technology it was great to have you know, someone from google from microsoft, and of course, from samsung, all on the podcast today before we close this out, i want to ask a question of each of you soren, what is it that you do for fun and when you're not at your desk working for samsung? søren lambæk 48 46 as i already said that i do like art to play music and draw and i have an eight-month-old son that's taking up a lot of my time at the moment tony morelan 49 00 wonderful wonderful yeah, congratulations on that thank you in a day, what is it the you do for fun when you can step away from your role at ade oshineye 49 09 google? so i do a lot of things but i think the main thing that occupies my time nowadays has been playing badminton it's an it's a huge part of the swiss culture and there's just a lot of people who play badminton, so it's a great game you can actually get seriously injured in it but you can also get very good at it so i'd recommend it tony morelan 49 32 in guy what is it that you do for fun up in the great northwest? when you get to put aside your responsibilities at microsoft i can see in your background now i noticed on your wall, you've got your own indoor rock-climbing gym guy merin 49 45 yeah, exactly so trivia in the last six months i've been training really, really hard to climb and summit some of the mountains around north washington goal is to get even bigger mountains but we did a couple of summits last weekend and really into climbing and something mountains now wow takes a lot of mental prep, nutrition, fitness level and i've seen a lot of similarities between the experiences i have with preparing for a climb, to even things i do at work it's really managing a project, a lot of insights i got from climbing that i apply in other places tony morelan 50 25 that's great that's great hey, i wanted to thank all of you for being on the podcast today it was wonderful to hear the different voices and get a chance to chat with you all ade oshineye 50 34 thank you very much for having us you closing 50 35 just looking to start creating for samsung download the latest tools to code your next app, or get software for designing apps without coding at all sell your apps to the world on the samsung galaxy store check out developer samsung com today and start your journey with samsung the samsung developers podcast is hosted by tony morelan and produced by jeanne hsu
Learn Developers Podcast
docseason 2, episode 1 previous episode | episode index | next episode this is a transcript of one episode of the samsung developers podcast, hosted by and produced by tony morelan a listing of all podcast transcripts can be found here host tony morelan senior developer evangelist, samsung developers instagram - twitter - linkedin guest drazen stojcic urarity urarity links urarity facebook - facebook com/urarity watchfaces/ urarity instagram - instagram com/urarity watchfaces urarity twitter - twitter com/uraritywatch urarity youtube - youtube com/user/romulicstojcic drazen stojcic linkedin - linkedin com/in/drazen-stojcic drazen is the 2020 galaxy store award winner for best watch face collection not only do we talk about his rise to becoming one of the top watch face sellers on galaxy store, but also his fascinating career path and it all started when he became an award-wining author, after writing his first novel at the age of 16 listen download this episode topics covered galaxy watch studio for tizen galaxy store galaxy store badges social media photography videography animations sdc19 best of galaxy store awards transcript note transcripts are provided by an automated service and reviewed by the samsung developers web team inaccuracies from the transcription process do occur, so please refer to the audio if you are in doubt about the transcript tony morelan 00 01 hey, i'm tony morelan and this is pow!, the samsung developers podcast where we chat with innovators using samsung technologies, award winning app developers and designers, as well as insiders working on the latest samsung tools welcome to season two, episode one on today's show, i interviewed drazen stojcic, the super successful watch face designer behind the brand, urarity, drazen is the 2020 best of galaxy store award winner for best watch face collection not only do we talk about his rise to becoming one of the top watch face sellers on galaxy store, but also this fascinating career path and it all started when he became an award-winning author after writing his first novel at the age of 16 enjoy tony morelan 00 48 so i have to start by saying i am extremely excited to kick off the new season of the podcast with one of my absolute favorite designers drazen from urarity drazen stojcic 01 01 hi hi, tony thank you for having me tony morelan 01 04 yeah, excellent i'm so excited to have you on the show let me first start by asking who is drazen stojcic? drazen stojcic 01 13 so well, i guess i could say the basics you know, i'm 38 years old i'm from europe, from croatia, and married and i've spent last four years designing watch faces for samsung devices and after a lifelong career in all sorts of media related stuff, i found myself in something that i really enjoy doing and it turned out i was pretty good at it and so now four years later, i'm i've received the award for the best watch face collection and is it's been like, you know, a crown after all that hard work and, and time and effort put into it tony morelan 02 07 so you're saying that if you started about four years ago, doing watch faces, that means you pretty much started at the beginning of this whole opportunity for designers to create watch faces for samsung so tell me like, how did you first learn about samsung wearables and, and then ultimately designing drazen stojcic 02 23 so i think it's a similar story with most early developers, you know, we are all a bit of gadget freaks and so i've had samsung, the very first samsung smartwatch was because i had a samsung phone as well and so when samsung made their first wearable, i was like all over it, you can customize it, you can do anything, it was just a device that could like measure your heart rate and stare at some very basic stuff, and had a camera on it correct and it had a camera on the wrist yes and you know, at that time, my whole life was around photography and so having, you know, a camera and a wristband that was like, awesome, you know, i just, i loved it and so when the new versions came out, obviously i was, i was upgrading and at some point, a friend of mine, who was my work colleague, actually mentioned, you know, you're pretty good at design and you all you have all this previous experience with i had some experience with designing mobile apps, for like 15 years ago, for before even android existed, you know, it was like, the very first touchscreen phones that showed up and i teamed up with a with a programmer, and we made a mobile keyboard and so i was doing the graphics and the design, and he was programming and so he knew all this because we talked about it and he said, you know, you have to watch you have the knowledge, why don't you try, you know, there's this cool software where you can just you don't need to know programming because i'm not a programmer and there's this cool software, you can download it and you can like make your own designs for your watch and so i downloaded the galaxy watch designer, and now it's a galaxy watch studio so and i loved it i loved it i within a week i had like, watch face ready, and i want to publish it yes it just started from that just you know, pure luck tony morelan 04 51 yeah, that's very similar to how i got my start i mean that you know, i attended this event at samsung where they you know, told everybody about gear watch designer yeah and came home that night and was so excited to be able to, in a sense, do programming without any coding so i could use all my graphic design skills, but yet create this, you know, interactive watch phase i mean, it's just, yeah, i bought in real quickly to it so i know that you've had quite the journey to get to the point where you are now as a watch face, designers doing lots of different, you know, jobs, but all within the same sort of family of everything related around media well, yeah so tell me how you got your start indesign drazen stojcic 05 37 so i guess i've always liked you know, even as a kid, i had like, these artistic tendencies so i would like draw a lot and i would paint and i would write and do all sorts of stuff, you know and so my first experiences were basically with computers, you know, and those were computers where you didn't even have an os on them i come from croatia, which went through an armed conflict war in the 90s and i was just a kid at that time, but after the war, my elementary school, got to the nation in, in computers, so none of the teachers had any experience with that and us kids obviously, never even seen a computer at that point and so i think it was like a un donation or some sort of a charity program and so yeah, and so they set up a classroom for us, that was like 15, or 20 of computers, and a teacher from arts and crafts was assigned to do something useful with those computers and he was an older gentleman who didn't know english, who didn't know it was just the oh, you figured this out and so he asked kids in the school, it was anybody interested and i always was fascinated by technology i think it was like four kids from the whole school that signed up for this that was like, first contact with, with computers and everything i did later on was, in some sense connected to it you know, i when i got my first home computer, i was just like, drawing stuff, all the all the time, i was just like learning software, sketching, stuff, making, i don't know, school, newspapers, stuff like that, you know, everything was, you know, one thing and then the next thing and so, after high school, i was into music at that time and so i ended up being on local radio station yeah and so because the station was part of like, a network that had newspaper and radio and, and a tv station, i spent next couple of years moving from one to the next and so i moved from the radio where i worked as a as a dj and tony morelan 08 07 so a dj, spinning music i mean, yeah, drazen stojcic 08 10 yeah that's great yeah, i actually really did some, like, nightclubs stuff so i would work during the day on the radio station and at night, i will be working like cocktail bars and really, tony morelan 08 22 dj drazen drazen stojcic 08 26 yeah, and so and, you know, this is all time before internet so there's no internet at this point and so obviously, being in a radio station gets you new music, and then you can, you know, use that music to put on parties and so, yeah, so it's like, using one job to make money on the side and so, and then i moved to the newspapers where i worked as a as a journalist, because i always enjoyed writing tony morelan 08 58 and i think i heard that you actually received an award when you were much younger for you you actually wrote, yeah, drazen stojcic 09 07 yeah, i wrote a novel when i was 16, actually and i, when i was 17, i got two major prizes for best first novel in croatia that's great from like, really a respected, you know, people in croatia who are basically in our top of the crops and so that was also a push that led me into journalism eventually, right and, and during my journalist days, i had a situation where we were a photographer that was supposed to cover an event with me, he couldn't make it and there was no one else and because at that time, people from my newspapers already knew that i was like into computers, and i have a like, always chasing something and so my editor said, you know, we just got these funny new digital cameras, maybe you could pick one up and just take two shots, it'll be fine for the print, you know, just try to keep people in frame, you know, it was and so that was my first experience with digital photography and i was instantly in love with that and so, actually, that day, i would always ask that i take my own shots and basically, i would, i would take photos of what i'm supposed to do, and i wouldn't, then i would spend the rest of the day shooting like, anything i could find and i would, i would intentionally only leave some of the photos that i thought were good i would leave them on the cart for photo editors so they can see that tony morelan 10 55 they can see your work that's great yeah, drazen stojcic 10 56 exactly and so after a while, i got a call from the from the photography editor and it was all like this transitional period where they were moving away from film and classic film cameras into digital yes and so he said, you know, are you? are you leaving these photos on the cards? because i kind of liked them? and i said, yeah, well, you know, i liked this thing you know, this digital photography seems to suit me and within a month, i wasn't working as a journalist anymore i just really, yeah, i just moved on to photography overnight wow and so my photography work, then, you know, i learned a lot of stuff from the, from the more experienced photographers there but i was also able to get on this train really early of, of this digital photography that was just coming in a lot of older photographers had a problem with this, they couldn't adapt so well so, so quickly, you know, it required working with software and all of that stuff that i basically was used to and so a few years later, i, i partnered up with a very senior and well-respected photographer here in my town and he had a big production company that was basically multimedia we had like a video cruise, we had cgi designers, we had sound crews, we had, you know, full multimedia production along with design and so i did basically the same thing i did before i did here so i would move from one to next position and i just kind of learned along the way, too, i have no formal education in either of these things yeah so it's all just learning from other people and learning on your own trying to, you know, get something new, i had a desire to express myself and so it was always something media related, and now share all of these things from the past and especially i don't know, there's a lot of, in my past a lot of work with marketing so working with marketing companies with like, production teams, and you'll learn what clients want, how they think how all of this kind of came together and lead into, into urarity tony morelan 13 34 yes, yeah, that's, that's, it's amazing i mean, i have to say, i'm extremely surprised to hear that you say that you don't have formal training yeah, but hearing about the experiences, all of the years, and all these different areas that you've, you know, had an opportunity to work in, it really shows because i think that's where you urarity stands out from many of the other watch face developers, it's all of the other assets that are required to be successful you know, when you see your videos in your photography, you can tell that someone with excellent expertise is putting this together, because it's not just a computer rendition or a 3d model that's rotating i mean, you actually are taking a camera on a dolly and doing rotation with it and to me, that's what really stands out because that's pretty unique to see from a from a developer, you know, marketing on samsung platform it gives it such a realness, you know, where you actually see the product and it gives confidence when you're thinking about it, should i make a purchase? so i think that is probably one of the biggest factors for your success when i see the work that you do i agree and that's basically the whole logic i started doing this right from the beginning because drazen stojcic 14 51 i kind of knew that it wasn't enough to make just the watch face itself look good so everything else to look at the same level, yeah, so, and obviously over the couple of last years i've, i've, i've advanced further and my, my designs have become better and my marketing materials as well but the core idea is still the same, you know, if you make, you can make the best watch face ever yeah, but if your presentations is not good, it's just the customers won't get it tony morelan 15 30 exactly so i understand that you've already is not just draws in that you actually have partnered with someone who has expertise in, in these areas of like social media and marketing and whatnot, that's helping you so tell me a little bit about the other person that is involved with, with the urarity success drazen stojcic 15 51 so at first, it was just me and you know, for probably first two years, i did all of this stuff on my own but then, as i advanced and as i got more and more customers and more and more of this production behind this, i realized that i needed help and my brothers do dumb, ugly he just came fresh out of college that had marketing as one of the major classes in it and so he knew about my watch faces, and he would frequently helped me he and i came up with the name the urarity tony morelan 16 35 yeah, so tell me that tell me the history that you came up with that name drazen stojcic 16 38 yeah so because my brother has this knack, for, for coming up with funny names for stuff and so we would frequently do that for like, all sorts of statements will make up names for the products or for name for names for companies or find, you know, funny word plays and stuff like that, when i figured out that i needed the brand, and i couldn't just, you know, be just me, it needed a brand name and so we're just talking about this and so a lot of people think that your urarity is basically you and urarity, which it is but the main idea behind it is basically because the first four letters of the word urarity actually mean watchmaker in creation tony morelan 17 29 that is great drazen stojcic 17 31 yeah, so we started from that, you know, it was like, because even today, you could see like these shops around the town that had like this art so it was just, you know, we're just making fun and your charity just popped up somewhere, because i knew it would work well in english although it is a bit of a tongue twister i still liked how it sounded and how it looked and i like this double meaning because it worked in, in our language as well and so he and i came up with this name and then over time, he just kind of started helping me more and more and at some point, i said, okay, now, i think you could probably handle a lot of this stuff better than me, because you actually do have an education process and so my brother has been helping me ever since he's basically the whole marketing and customer support and all of that is his work so i'm purely doing the creative stuff tony morelan 18 39 that's great that's great yeah, it gives you an opportunity to really focus on your expertise and, and allow him to focus on his expertise so is your urarity, pretty much your full-time job drazen stojcic 18 51 yeah, it has become over time for a long period i also did a lot of side jobs, but the pandemic changed a lot of that because this is a job that you can do from the comfort and safety of your home yes, and my side jobs that were mostly photography related basically, there weren't there anymore when all of this started and so for me, it was like the perfect the perfect job to do during these times where you had to stay at home a lot either i've actually used the opportunity to do a lot of the stuff that i would previously maybe put off so i did a lot of housekeeping you know in the store, cleaned up the descriptions and all that stuff that usually just you know, you don't have enough time to do all of that and i kind of fine tune to everything that we did so for us it's been a positive effect in that sense tony morelan 20 00 yeah, no, that's, that's, that's great i mean, there has been a lot of challenges during this past year for many people on all different areas, i will say you are not the first person who has said that, you know, this opportunity that samsung has provided to developers, you know, really the, you know, indie designers like yourself, you can still continue to work from your job where it is safe so that's, that's great absolutely and i mean, even before this, having the opportunity to work from home has been quite a refreshing change for me, because a lot of the work i did before, involved, a lot of traveling a lot of staying out of home, which is, you know, it's great fun for a drazen stojcic 20 42 while but then as you get older and you need, you get a wife and a house and all of a dog and all of that, of course, you prefer staying at home, it's not as a lot of people are thinking i don't want to stay at home no, i'm fine i'm not complaining tony morelan 21 05 so yeah, back when we were allowed to travel, that's actually when i first met you, because you came out to san jose and attended our conference sdc 19 so it was great to actually meet you in person, i was very aware of your work prior to that so when i actually got to put a face to the to the brand, you were already that was a great moment for me, i was honored to meet you so tell me about that what was that experience like for you to come out to san jose and get to actually see the samsung people in person and also be at the conference? drazen stojcic 21 35 i think it was probably the biggest milestone for me, it changed so much in terms of perspective of what this whole thing is about because up until that point, i would have contacts with people from samsung and from other developers as well and i still do, but you know, actually deciding to get on a plane and fly on to another side of the world, and then be a part of this great event and the whole buzz and all of these people from all over the world, it was just eye opening for me because as many developers or better to say designers in in galaxy store i don't have a lot of experience with these tech conferences and so, you know, coming to san jose meeting people from samsung meeting, meeting other developers having a talk with them, and just exchanging, you know, opinions and ideas and i loved it that that's it you know, i wanted to do this for real now yeah, i think that was the point where it shifted in my head that, okay, this is serious stuff and there's a great support from samsung, which it always was there but just putting a face to the name of all these various contexts they had, it just made all the difference tony morelan 23 02 and i have to say one of the highlights for me was sitting in a room with who i thought were the rock stars of the designers i mean, here i was, you know, chatting with you and next year was matteo dini and then bergen, tomas from vienna studios and i'm like, oh, my gosh, man these are the designers that are just making incredible watch faces on the store and we're all in this one room together, just you know, having great conversations so it was wonderful to be able to meet face to face with many of these top designers drazen stojcic 23 36 absolutely and i especially enjoyed talking with you i think it was one of the best conversations i had there just i think we clicked really early on and definitely you have two perspectives on the on the whole thing, you're started as a designer, and now you're in samsung, so you can kind of relate better to the stuff that we're talking about tony morelan 24 00 exactly yeah, that was one of the main reasons why i took the position and i think one of the main reasons i got the job was that samsung really wanted to have someone with that voice internally so that i could be the liaison between taking the suggestions and the challenges that the designers have and trying to give a route to solving some of those issues and making the platform even better exactly unfortunately this year, we couldn't have the conference because of the pandemic as many people know we did an online award show and i was absolutely honored to be a part of the team that awarded you the best watch face collection and you know without a doubt, your collection just is amazing you know i still i look at the animated watch faces you do i see the videos that you put behind your watch faces as far as the project goes, and you are clearly deserving of this top honor so tell me, how did you first learn that you were winning this award from samsung? drazen stojcic 25 10 okay, so first of all, it was really an awesome thing you know, i was just blown away by the fact that i got the award i never, i never really expected it, when i started making watch faces that will end up in me getting some sort of an award for this or making all of this success that that has happened in the past years, actually, that how i found out was because i got this strange email that said, you know, just to notice that there will be an online event at this time and date and let's stay in touch i mentioned this to matteo dini, you know, did you see there's going to be an online event? and, you know, he said, i didn't get any email about this she was the winner last year, she said to me, oh, wait, i know what this is you probably won an award so i basically found out about this from a matteo tony morelan 26 18 that's funny that's funny i want to kind of go back a little bit and let's talk about your actual workflow when it comes to designing watch faces what is the first thing you do? are you grabbing a pencil and a piece of paper and starting to sketch? do you just dive right into the computer? drazen stojcic 26 34 i think it really depends sometimes i will just get an idea from a totally random spot like one of my most successful watch faces, the inspiration for it came from the blue glow around an elevator button that i just liked tony morelan 26 55 and which watch face says that drazen stojcic 26 57 it was the pulse series yes, yeah and so i was in this elevator and he was like some hotel and then there was this button that was beautifully glowing, like pulsating blue and i was just looking at it and i loved it and so i wanted to use that glow and have the similar effect on a watch that i came home and i started i started up after effects and i made this blue ring that was glowing, but it just wasn't working, you know and so i started playing with motion and then i figured out that it'd be cool if it looked like it was coming out of the screen like it was slowly moving out to the edges and so i had this thing, and there were no watch hands, no numbers, and nothing else, just this pulsing thing and i loved it tony morelan 27 52 so you've created this glowing, really cool animation what's the next step? i mean, you've got to be able to turn this into a watch face so are you just playing around with different shapes to create the you know the form? drazen stojcic 28 05 because most of our watch faces are animated, i would do the animations and then i would just grab one on screen from the animation series and then i would start like playing in in just pure to the trying to figure out what can i do? where could i put some of this simple code stuff going to work one with another? where are the watch hands going to be? is this going to be a digital watch face? or an analog watch face? is it going to have like a lot of info or not a lot of info and so it's going back and forth so i would sometimes start with an animation and then edit it 15 times over until everything fits one within another and it's just it's really a tedious process once you start complicating things with animations and animations do complicate things is immensely you know, i sometimes envy designers that can make really awesome watch faces they're not animated, because i don't know how to do that so anyway, that's funny yeah, yeah and it's also funny when they tell me oh, you can make all these awesome animations and i'm thinking yeah, but you don't have to make them and you still make us and watch faces tony morelan 29 26 at that point, are you using illustrator or photoshop? drazen stojcic 29 29 yeah, i use a lot of software so i will use basically the whole adobe package so everything from, you know, premiere photoshop, illustrator, and i also use 3d software like cinema 4d or even sketchup for some of this stuff you know, if i just want to make a quick idea to see how it works it's just a whole bunch of stuff you know? various software's that i'm used to, from before, you know, there used to from my previous work so it's not like one thing, you know, i'm sure people could do just fine using probably one serious graphics software but because of the animations, it's just not enough you need to have like all this other stuff, too tony morelan 30 20 of course, just to mention, we both are very familiar with tomas just checked from vienna studios, still astounds me and if you haven't listened to this podcast, go back and listen to it i'll let you in on a little secret tomas uses powerpoint to create his design so when i hear you talk about, you know, all the complexity of creating these animations, and you know, truthfully, you know, you have to become somewhat of a pro with photoshop and illustrator really to leverage all the tools in there yeah, to hear that tomas uses powerpoint, i know that you were surprised as i was drazen stojcic 30 51 i was blown away i met tim us for the first time at sdc and, and we had a really nice time talking and so naturally, we came to the, to this talk about software, and you know, and he said, you're never going to guess what i'm using to make my watch faces i was thinking, maybe he's using like, i don't know, some game or something like that some of that free graphics software or something more simple and so when he said, powerpoint, it blew me away because and this is what i was talking about so there are developers, they can make really awesome successful watch faces with software that wasn't even intended for this year and, and they can have great success yeah, so it's, it's just so awesome and i have huge respect for what he does and, and i totally recommend also listening to that podcast it was so cool tony morelan 31 53 i will say one thing that you guys have in common would be the photography after you've created the watch face so just like yourself, tomas is doing real video recording of his watch faces you can see his gloved hands come on to screen and do all the tapping interaction on his face so again, it's extremely important to find your unique way to showcase your work and both you and in tomas have done that drazen stojcic 32 23 yeah, yeah tomas especially with in because he, he is a he makes premium, like high end premium watch faces that are basically like for, for general public and so him using the gloves and having all these nice backdrops and everything it just sort of fits within the brand and with the whole identity and everything that he does and so i when i start making videos, and i started right from the get go, because i realized that people needed to see this thing in action because it was animated i also wanted to set up like some of the basic standards, how i'm going to do this, what's going to be the approach and so most of my videos are like have colorful lighting, and a lot of motion they're always in motion i don't make static videos because that's also something i wanted to emphasize the animations give a lot of motion to the watch faces and so the videos are kind of like even more emphasizing that there's this you just need to figure out what is the main point what are you trying to do with your designs and then have that same idea taken from the watch face to the screenshots to your app description, to your videos to your online social media it just all needs to tie into one nice bow and then it works tony morelan 34 02 definitely i would say another thing that really stands out for me when i think of the brand urarity is color you do not shy away from color i can tell that you must spend a great amount of time thinking about color i know we're on a podcast and you can only hear us at this moment but i can actually see you and right now your background in your room is changing in color you must have some sort of led lighting the chest tell me about color and how important it is to you because i can tell it is a big factor drazen stojcic 34 34 yeah, it is it is and actually you know funny things you notice about the background because i would frequently set up my room lights to go with the with the colors on the of the watch face that i'm working on that's great or sometimes i will i will just like use these i have these cool led lights that you can customize and all that remotely and sometimes i will just like mix these colors in real life and just see what's, what fits you know what works? and a lot of it helps me having experience within photography, you learn what colors work one with another? how brightness functions, how do we perceive brightness on a screen, it's kind of like, when you're framing the shot for that photograph it's not that different from setting up various elements on the screen, because you're still trying to get that golden ratio or intuitively program to like certain shapes and certain forms and certain ratios, and certain colors as well yes and so depending on the mood, i guess i'm trying to make or the effect that i'm trying to get, i will use a lot of color, or i will use muted colors and some sometimes i don't think a lot of people notice it, but not all of my watch phases have like black backgrounds, although they look like they do, they have a slight tint, and it can be just the tiniest amount of maybe blue or green it and, and for me, it makes all the difference i spend huge amounts of time with color i don't stop until i'm perfectly satisfied and now having my brother in all of this a lot of the times i you know, i will be happy and he will say i'm not so sure i think you need to make like, i think you need to change this and then i was like spend another week changing colors so it's a long process it's not yeah, you know, you don't do it in one night tony morelan 36 42 i loved hearing what you said just about black that that truthfully, black is not just black, you can have warm black, you can have cold black and so i often do that where i'll use the color picker in photoshop and you know, if i've done my design, i'll try and find the sort of the feel of the of the face the you know, what's the tone of it and i'll sample that and then within color picker, i'll go down to the to the almost to black, but it has just a little bit of hint of that yeah, whether it's like an orange or a blue or something because that then like you said, it ties in that background, that the foundation of the watch face still picks up what feels like that ambient lighting from the other elements exactly drazen stojcic 37 25 that's exactly what i'm talking about i take a lot of time perfecting my watch faces and that's why i guess that's why i don't make a lot of them you know, i'm not like this super producer i didn't make like 100 watch faces a year? yeah, it's always maybe 10 or 12, or 15 tony morelan 37 48 so how many total? would you say you have available on the store? drazen stojcic 37 51 yeah, so at the moment, i think we have around 100 or 110 okay, i've made a lot more actually, in these four years, especially in the beginning, i would make a lot, a lot of i think a lot of developers go through this, they will just churn out just bump, bump, bump but after a while you see that? it's just it doesn't make sense it's very few hold backs, you know, let it sit for a while get everything polished to the very last detail and then once you're totally satisfied, then you publish yeah and so as time goes on, i'm more focused on making the watch faces as perfect as they can be, rather than getting them out as quickly as possible tony morelan 38 41 yeah and i think that also what comes into play is the support that comes around that watch face so what you have to do from a marketing standpoint, all of the different, you know, elements that are key to successfully marketing your watch face if you have hundreds and hundreds, it's hard to maintain that this way it sounds like you can focus on you know, a smaller collection, but still be able to then put a lot of time into the marketing drazen stojcic 39 05 side of things exactly the more watch faces you have the bigger problem you have down the road when it comes time to update and eventually does so i really think that this is a like a situation where you need to think about not the quantity but rather the quality because in the end, the customers also recognize this, you know, if they see you made 300 watch phases in a year and the year has 365 days, you know you're not sending the right message and i will frequently go and be very critical of my own work and so after a while i see a bunch of mistakes i did or i'm not totally satisfied with some of my older work and i will just remove it i will just take it, take it down, clean up the portfolio, polish it so when a customer comes, you know, they only see the very best, or at least the very best for this moment that i added i mean, you know, of course, yeah tony morelan 40 08 so would you mind sharing? how many downloads total? does he already have? drazen stojcic 40 15 so we're close to 700,000 downloads now, wow, stretched over a period of four years and a large part of this was paid watch faces, or, you know, i don't know, the exact percent, which was, some of them were free and will frequently use free watch faces to, to promote, or other things that will, for example, in terms of marketing strategies will frequently do like, buy one, get one? yes and stuff like that, you know, where a customer still gets a free watch face but, you know, we also turn them into a painting into a paying customer as well tony morelan 41 05 so let me ask you, how do you approach that? does the customer have to show proof of purchase? what's your, what's your approach to that? drazen stojcic 41 13 so we asked them to show us a screenshot of from their, from this store, or sometimes will like, be fine if they can just show a photo of their watch, with our watch face on it, or things like that, you know, any proof is fine we're not really playing detectives here or anything yeah so on one hand, we want to give something for free on another hand and a lot of these customers are our returning customers, because they, they are familiar with our watch faces and with our system, and we know a lot of them over the years, there's really been customers that have supported us right from the very start tony morelan 41 58 what's your approach with marketing on social? are you doing much in the way of that? drazen stojcic 42 03 when i started with watch faces, my main kind of venue was youtube, because of the animations and all of that, i just needed a video service that could, you know, show the watch faces in action so i was building up this youtube channel for a long time and then after a while, i also started doing facebook and instagram but it takes time, it really does and i didn't really realize how much it can be useful until my brother took over and start doing it like for real sure you know, he had only this one thing to focus on for example, our youtube channel is close to 2 million views now and we only have our watch face videos so that does kind of tell you a lot, there's a lot of things that you can do to promote your watch faces and so over time, we are also we've also teamed up with some of the more popular tech channels or people who are doing watch face reviews, or who have an interest in this and so we would team up with them, have them promote some of our work, give some of coupons for free sure, something like that some discount stuff like that and facebook has also been very good for us instagram, and, you know, i my brother does so much stuff that some of it even i don't know, you know, he's like, doing stuff on reddit, on the forums tick tock, really are the place yeah, i really don't mess into this so i gave him like free rein to do as he thinks because obviously, this is something that he does and knows better than, than me tony morelan 44 06 yeah okay excellent and i'm sure across all of this, you're leveraging galaxy store badges is that correct? drazen stojcic 44 12 yeah, absolutely you know, we, we were actually a part of the galaxy badge pilot program and so quickly, we, we kind of got this additional step into our workflow so we will use both individual badges for like certain watch faces, but we are also frequently using our, like, our main badge that leads to our whole portfolio because and as you mentioned, you know, we i think we have a strong portfolio so sometimes the first thing they see is the whole layout, everything we've done so and it's been very useful in terms of, you know, following the clicks and all of that the statistics and there's a lot of science in this, i guess it's very interesting when you start analyzing the data that you can get from these badges and clicks and all and see what works what doesn't yeah, yeah because obviously you're trying to maximize the effect, you're not going to spend time or, or money or effort into something that doesn't work tony morelan 45 19 yeah, definitely so tell me what is in the future for your entity? is there anything that we can anticipate? drazen stojcic 45 29 well, so as i mentioned before, we had a lot of success with our mechanical watch faces that have these highly customizable appearances and so for the last couple of months, i've been toying with this idea of trying to do the same thing, but with digital watch faces and getting that same wow effect for customers that, you know, oh, sorry yeah right, great so just today, i got my new the 21 ultra tony morelan 46 20 oh, did you okay, drazen stojcic 46 21 yeah, yeah, i just arrived this morning and so i, like 10 minutes before we started this, i had to transfer all of the data and settings from my old phone, of course, and one of the things that it transferred was also the alarms so i switched off the alarm at the old phone, but i forgot about the new one so that's why i went off tony morelan 46 47 that's too funny right so you were talking about in the future, doing some animations with digital? yeah, drazen stojcic 46 53 yeah so i mentioned before that we had huge success with our mechanical watch faces that that had really customizable appearances and so for the last couple of months, i've been playing with this idea of repeating that same thing, but with digital watch faces and it's, it may seem like it's a simple transition, but actually, it's not and it has its own unique challenges, because making digital watch faces is completely different idea behind it and different visuals, and it just needs a different approach and so i'm kind of messing with that i'm trying to find the best thing that that i think it will be like good first watch face to try and repeat that same success sure tony morelan 47 44 that's exciting to hear because i would love to see that your urarity face in a in a digital form so super excited to know that we can anticipate that so before we close off this interview, you know, i have to say your english is amazing you're from croatia, but you speak perfect english i know, there's a little story behind how you learn to speak english can you share that? drazen stojcic 48 07 yeah, sure so i mentioned before, you know, we had this war thing here when i was a kid and so during the war, it's not that different from the pandemic, you know, yeah, you spend a lot of time indoors, you know, you can go out, you can play your little kid and so it just coincided with this period where we got like, first cable tv and so before that, there was like, three channels all in one language and that was it and then, you know, we got like these cool things like cnn and cartoon network and all of that stuff and i didn't know a word of english other than, you know, seeing some of the movies and stuff like that and so i was just like, i would watch hours and hours of this and a cool thing was that it was subtitled so yeah and so just, you know, listening to the words and seeing the translation below, it just helps so much, you know, with the meaning and with the phrases and with the correct pronunciation and all of that stuff and then later on came to computers and with the computers, eventually there came a period where i did a little bit of online gaming, and then you would talk to people from all over the world and then you just hit too, you know, you got to start speaking and i would frequently talk to people from the us or from england, or even people from other parts of the world and you know, english was always something i enjoyed, and i just fit so perfectly and because i travel a lot, it's also proven to be really useful for me yeah, of course tony morelan 49 56 so what you're saying is that you learned english by watching ren and stimpy? drazen stojcic 50 01 yeah, pretty much that's pretty much tony morelan 50 04 that's great hey drazen, it’s been excellent to have you on the podcast thank you so much for joining me and much luck in the new year drazen stojcic 50 13 thank you for having me and just you know, i'm very, very happy and honored to be on the podcast i always enjoy talking to you and i hope that this year sdc will be possible and that we will meet in person and see the other developers as well, you know, i really missed seeing them last year tony morelan 50 37 yeah, no, it'll be great to get everybody back together exactly excellent all right well, thanks, drazen drazen stojcic 50 43 thank you, tony outro 50 44 looking to start creating for samsung download the latest tools to code your next app, or get software for designing apps without coding at all sell your apps to the world on the samsung galaxy store check out developer samsung com today and start your journey with samsung tony morelan 51 00 the pow! podcast is brought to you by the samsung developer program and produced by tony morelan
Learn Developers Podcast
docseason 1, episode 3 previous episode | episode index | next episode this is a transcript of one episode of the samsung developers podcast, hosted by and produced by tony morelan a listing of all podcast transcripts can be found here host charlotte allen community manager, samsung developers guest tony morelan developer evangelist, samsung developers instagram - twitter - linkedin in this episode of pow, the tables are turned and i am the one being interviewed hear stories from my past life as a freelance graphic designer, like when i designed madonna’s first website, recorded a knock-off version of the final countdown for nokia, and had a chance encounter with a ferrari that launched my career at samsung listen download this episode topics covered watch face designing galaxy watch designer galaxy watch studio mobile ui theme designing themes studio check out the samsung developer program website at developer samsung com to learn more about designing watch faces using samsung’s galaxy watch studio previously named gear watch designer and galaxy watch designer , as well as designing mobile ui themes with samsung’s galaxy themes studio be sure to sign up for the samsung developers newsletter to learn about the latest from the samsung developer program helpful links facebook instagram twitter youtube linkedin forums transcript note transcripts are provided by an automated service and reviewed by the samsung developers web team inaccuracies from the transcription process do occur, so please refer to the audio if you are in doubt about the transcript tony morelan 00 02 hey, i'm tony morelan and this is pow! podcast of wisdom from the samsung developer program, where we talk about the latest tech trends and give insight into all of the opportunities available for developers looking to create for samsung on today's show, we're going to do something a little different we're going to switch chairs, and i'm going to be the one being interviewed i sat down with charlotte allen, she's the one in charge of our outreach, finding the best opportunities in building the relationships that drive our developer program charlotte is also the person i called when i said i wanted to work for samsung hope you enjoy 00 39 hi, tony hey, charlotte, tony morelan 00 40 how are you? i'm doing fine how about yourself? charlotte allen 00 43 i'm good excellent can i tell you i'm really excited to have the opportunity to interview you today? yeah, this is this should be fun so how long have we known each other maybe a year that's actually a year and a half charlotte allen 00 54 year and a half it seems like longer in some ways tony morelan 00 58 but i think that's a good thing in a good way, charlotte allen 01 01 yes so i'm excited because in the year and a half, we've been working together, you've done so many amazing things and i'm excited for the community to get to know you and to learn about some of the things that you've done yeah so tell us a little bit about tony tony morelan 01 17 sure so before i started working at samsung, my entire career, i was a freelance graphic designer at a nice office at home, i got to work on a lot of nice projects i got to set my own hours i mean, really, it was it was a great gig charlotte allen 01 31 tell me a little bit about some of the cool projects that you worked on as a freelance designer tony morelan 01 37 sure yeah i did a fun project for nokia i didn't animation for the conference okay and they wanted some music to go with it i don't know if you know the song the final countdown yes, yes done by a band called europe, right so they wanted that song and i said, well, you can't just go and take that song i said, however, how about i record knock off version of that song yes charlotte allen 02 02 okay, so musically inclined as well tony morelan 02 05 yeah so you know, back when i was a kid, i thought i was going to be a rock star and okay the band and did that for about 10 years and realized, yes, charlotte allen 02 13 you had your own band yes, tony morelan 02 15 yeah and so when they said, hey, they wanted this song, i said, i can do that for you the next year, they loved it so much they said, come back and do us another one so then they asked me to basically rip off a u2 song and that was a lot of fun i still managed to, you know, plug in my guitar every once in a while, even the music that you're listening to today on this podcast, right? that's my alter ego is the atomic tone? yes so yeah, so i, you know, good opportunity here i still get to, you know, do a little recording have a little fun so yeah, all the music that you're hearing today is from the atomic tone was fortunate to actually get my start right around the same time that the internet was really starting to grow i actually worked on hp’s first website, but i would say, you know, the craziest project that i worked on was i actually designed madonna's first website charlotte allen 03 36 so wait a second so madonna the material girl, yeah, yes, madonna wow, that's pretty cool tony morelan 03 46 yeah, so i was doing some work for sony music the internet was totally new they didn't even have a website for their music division and they were wanting to bring their artists online so i designed a site for madonna, bruce springsteen, ozzy osborne i mean, even britney spears, you know a lot of the big names at the time yeah, so that was a lot of fun charlotte allen 04 05 so the material girl madonna, how was it working with her? tony morelan 04 10 really the only feedback madonna kept giving for the website was make my picture bigger make my picture bigger so we would do rounds and rounds and wrath of the website and madonna's picture kept getting bigger and bigger i charlotte allen 04 21 don't think anybody's going to be surprised by that right? tony morelan 04 23 no, no, no, when i think back that was probably one of the most unique projects that i got to work on charlotte allen 04 29 wow so tell me about your journey tony morelan 04 32 to samsung how i got here yeah, so that that was unique also, i had no intentions of leaving my freelance gig truthfully it was it was amazing however, i came across an amazing opportunity a friend of mine who was also a graphic designer knew about samsung she invited me to attend a workshop here at the campus in mountain view where they were going to teach you about the software called gear watch designer has since been changed to galaxy watch studio the free software that samsung makes available to designers to create interactive watch faces without doing any coding as a designer, that was like all i needed to hear and then when she said that there was free pizza, i thought hacky? no, why not show up for me? that sounds like a great evening charlotte allen 05 17 that's something we have in common yes tony morelan 05 23 interesting enough that was when i first met you because you were the one who was actually putting on this workshop that evening, i went home and actually stayed up all night creating my first watch face you guys were kind enough to actually give me one of the watches so i created this design and i put it on the watch and i sat there and stared at it and thought, oh my gosh, i've just created this like interactive moving animated artwork that's sitting on my wrist and knowing that i could then take that design and upload it to the galaxy store and start selling this, i thought, oh my gosh, what a great gig i thought of it as sort of a fun hobby at the time but i found myself over the next six months, spending more and more time designing watch faces and then eventually becoming approved to design phone ui themes when i learned about that, i just was so excited about this new way to be creative, to actually get my designs out and available seriously around the globe i mean, that first time that i published a watch face, i woke up that morning, and saw that i had a sale from argentina i had a sale in russia, mexico, united states, korea i mean, it was just amazing to see all these sales from around the globe that just got me even more excited charlotte allen 06 46 yeah, that is amazing and i personally have seen some of your designs, which are amazing thank you so i talk a little bit more about your design yeah tony morelan 06 54 so you know, when i started doing the artwork, i wasn't thinking so much like what's going to be the top seller, it was more of this as a creative outlet you know, i'm a huge fan of artists like miro and mondrian and matisse i love cars i love industrial thing so i found myself being inspired by just things that i saw out in the world that could be turned into a watch face so i was grabbing my phone and snapping pictures and, and getting inspired but all these, you know, different unusual objects that i could turn into a watch face charlotte allen 07 24 so is that what inspired my most favorite designs that i've seen of yours? and i remember they're these amazing car wheels and these are jags yeah, tony morelan 07 34 exactly so i was at a stoplight and again, a ferrari pulled up next to me and i see his wheel and i thought, oh my gosh, it's like a perfect watch face so that inspired me to create a watch face that i call to sorrow charlotte allen 07 48 to sorrow yeah, that mean tony morelan 07 50 like that in italian it means treasure, which i thought hey, you know this is a great a great word it was great inspiration for the for the watch that watch face ended up becoming like top seller, what was nice was right around that time, samsung started to take notice of my designs, they wanted to feature that design on a banner on the homepage on the galaxy store it was huge i mean, it was from that design that i really started to see, you know how much money can be made off of doing these watch faces i then realized that i'd love this way too much started asking myself that question, could i go work for a company? could i actually go into the corporate world? i mean, a lot of times people start in the corporate world, and then they go home and they start doing freelance work while i'm doing it reverse, then the question was easy to answer and that was yes you know, i wanted to do this so i made a phone call and that phone call was to who? me? yes it was to i don't know if you remember that phone call? absolutely charlotte allen 08 45 yeah, the phone call you said i want to come and work for you and this is i should say after a number of conversations that we actually had already had, where you are providing some really great feedback to us about the design process areas and we could help you even come to some of our follow up meetings and they are you are already supporting some of the other folks who were also from the workshop and who are in the design process so that was kind of this natural thing that started to happen tony morelan 09 13 yeah, i found myself actually not only teaching the other designers that were invited to come to these meetings, but i was actually teaching the samsung people how to use the software that's when it gave me the confidence like, yes, i could go work for samsung, because i knew i had something that i could offer 09 34 tell us about your role here at samsung tony morelan 09 37 so my title is senior developer evangelist but i often tell people, i'm a teacher and there are different sides to that so one side of being a teacher at samsung is going out into the community so i will speak at conferences, i will conduct workshops, i will teach at universities, lots of different ways to get out into the community and teach how to design and create for samsung here at the office, though i am writing blogs creating youtube tutorial videos, we've now been doing this podcast series we've also launched a webinar series so a lot of different ways where i can help the community but being here in the office, so it is all about assisting designers and developers on creating for samsung charlotte allen 10 21 yeah so you touched a little bit on something that i wanted to ask about a webinar series, which is something that was just launched very recently, where you did just some amazing work, i mean, from building the studio, which is really cool, just doing cool vibe to our webinars to come up with a name, which is wow yes and talk a little bit about, wow, sure everybody wants to know what that means and then also, the recent webinar you did, tony morelan 10 48 yeah, yeah, we launched this new webinar series called wow, which stands for webinars of wisdom and the idea is to not just teach but do it in a very fun sort of quirky way so if you have seen any of the episodes of well, please go check them out, you can find them on youtube, just search samsung developer program and just put in wow and it'll show there the latest webinar that we did was about how to become a themes ui designer, what it takes so you have to submit a portfolio of a mockup of a theme and once it gets reviewed and approved, then you get the ability to download the software and start creating themes charlotte allen 11 26 and so well then led to what we're doing right now yes which is pow, so pow talk about what that means yeah, a little bit about so tony morelan 11 33 pow is podcasts of wisdom i mean, it took me off about two seconds you know, when we were done creating wow, i thought hmm, we have to come up with something for podcasts what could that be? and it was pretty quick it just came up with pow podcasts of wisdom so lots of great plans with that we're actually putting together our schedule already of all the interviews that we're going to be doing so we'll be interviewing some internal people here at samsung they can share a lot about our technologies and processes and how you can be successful using our tools we're also going to be interviewing designers and developers that are already successful with samsung so we've already lined up quite an impressive list of people that i'll be interviewing on pal that can share their journey how did they become a designer or a developer selling for samsung? so super excited about that? charlotte allen 12 20 yeah, i'm super excited about it as well another thing that you've worked on, that i've been really impressed with is you've created some amazing tools to support designers and the cool thing about you, tony, is that you've been on both sides of the fence you've been on this side of the fence as the freelance designer who attended our workshop and now you're on the other side of the fence of knowing the kinds of challenges that designers sometimes face and have come up with some amazing solutions in the way of tools and so if you can share some of those tools that you've put in place, yeah, tony morelan 12 52 for sure the first tool that i created is called the asset creator i noticed that when i was doing watch face design means that i was spending just as much time creating the graphics that are needed on your seller page as i was creating for the watch face, so i needed to find a way to speed up the time that it takes to publish your watch face the asset creators have photoshop template file that automates a lot of what is required when it comes to saving all the different images if you're interested you can go to our website which is developer samsung com actually wrote a blog and even created a youtube tutorial video on how to use the asset creator so you can just search asset creator in the search field and there'll be a link for downloading the asset crater itself charlotte allen 13 34 so asset creator and i think there's a recently yes little that you just created tony morelan 13 39 yeah, so inspired by the asset creator i created some lifestyle photos; the photos are unique pictures of the watch in use so i've taken the watch and i've put it into unique backgrounds so i've you know, placed it on a leather jacket or i've found some tech looking, you know, vent or a pipe or you know, just different lifestyle pictures of these photos and what's unique is that you can just copy paste your watch face into the layer in photoshop, and photoshop will automatically position at depth of field blur, it will do all of the necessary adjustments to the picture so that it is embedded into the scene so it's a huge time saver lots of unique pictures out there so again, you can find the lifestyle photos on our website, going to developer dot samsung comm charlotte allen 14 26 so one of the important things that you said a couple times with both of the tools is, is this time saver? yeah what kind of time are you talking? tony morelan 14 33 so i would say, you know, i would spend half a day creating the assets for your seller page charlotte allen 14 39 absolutely and that's why i wanted you to share is a huge time saver so you've done so much already, in just a year and a half anything we should look forward to tony morelan 14 48 yeah, one of the things i'm most excited about, we're actually doing a partnership with the art institute of dallas so we're going to be conducting an 11-week course for the students there that'll be really exciting we're going to dive really deep into watch face designing and all these students will get an opportunity to publish their designs and make those available to the world so really excited about that and we'll be doing some additional outreach so i know that we're going to go to how design in boston this year so that'll be a ton of fun we're going to set up a booth, we'll have some interaction for people to come in and actually design watch faces on site you know, in the past, we've gone to adobe max, that has been a wonderful experience in we have plans of returning there again in the in 2020 charlotte allen 15 30 yeah, i'm excited about both of those house new to us we haven't been there before, but been planning what we want to do there so it'd be really exciting so hopefully, we might be able to meet some folks there as well yes so what's the biggest challenge with your role here at samsung? tony morelan 15 43 i would say public speaking i mean, i'm a very chatty person, but you know, i have not had much experience getting up on stage really? charlotte allen 15 52 wow, tony, i'm really surprised to hear that i would not have thought and tony morelan 15 55 he must have forgot about that time that i bombed we were hosting about 100 different here at the campus, and i was i was asked to just give a short presentation i mean, maybe 10 minutes, the presentation could not have been easier i mean, all it has to do is talk about myself i just started at samsung, like, two months earlier, i was just going to show a few slides and talk about me as a designer and how i got to samsung well, just before i was going on stage, i was in the back of the room and a developer guy comes up and he starts asking me about all these technical questions about our watch i mean, i didn't know the answers i'm a designer i didn't know how many biometric sensors there were and the specs behind what they did so he turns to me, and he says, i'm surprised samsung hired you so now i'm doubting myself, you know, i mean, was i qualified to do this job and they announced my name to come up on stage so i run up to the stage and i grabbed the clicker to start going through my presentation and i grabbed it upside down i click the button, and i don't realize it but i'm actually going backwards to the presentation that was given before mine, and i don't realize this kind of talking away, and then i turn and i look at the projection screen, and i realized, i'm not even in my presentation so i click the other button, but then i click it too many times and i end up advancing like three slides into my presentation and at this point, i'm just totally lost you know, i'm nervous, and i start to feel this wave of anxiety come over me and i don't know what to think i don't know what to say and i just froze it just froze us looking at the audience and they were looking at me, it honestly, it's the weirdest thing i just could not function someone actually came up onto the stage and grabbed the clicker from me and together we just bulldoze my way through the rest of my presentation i mean, it was fine i mean, looking back at it, i'm sure it wasn't as bad as i made it out to be but you know, what it did tell me was that i needed to get some professional training public speaking so sign up for a few classes you know, here we are a little over a year later in this past year, i actually hosted the samsung developer conference award show so, yeah, that was a lot of fun charlotte allen 18 16 so how can the community find you? are you on social media and want to reach out to you possibly even see some of your work? tony morelan 18 24 sure, sure so when i started doing my workspace design, i'd created a brand name that brand name is axeir so it is a x e i r charlotte allen 18 32 have to ask again, is there a meaning to axeir or tony morelan 18 35 actually no, i wanted a five-letter domain name i can give a little advice is pick a domain name that people don't have to ask you how to spell it unfortunately, with axeir people don't know how to spell that so yeah, that wasn't that wasn't the best choice but you know what, i got the domain name can find me online under axeir on social channels is axeirbuzz so you can find me on twitter and instagram you can find me on linkedin, you know, just search my name is tony morelan happy to connect with you on linkedin and another way that you can reach me is just through our website you know, i'm active on the forums so you can go to our forums and post questions there charlotte allen 19 13 so it's been a blast talking to you today, i've learned some new things i didn't really know how popular you were with all the stars and but it's been great talking with you and working with you and thanks for sitting down and taking some time tony morelan 19 27 thank you outro 19 30 looking to start creating for samsung download the latest tools to code your next app, or software for designing apps without coding it all sell your apps to the world on the samsung galaxy store check out developer samsung com today and start your journey with samsung the pow! podcast is brought to you by the samsung developers program produced by tony morelan with special thanks to charlotte allen and music composed by the atomic tone
Learn Developers Podcast
docseason 3, episode 2 previous episode | episode index | next episode this is a transcript of one episode of the samsung developers podcast, hosted by and produced by tony morelan a listing of all podcast transcripts can be found here host tony morelan senior developer evangelist, samsung developers instagram - twitter - linkedin guest derrick lee, polycube galaxy themes, galaxy store not only do we chat about their approach to designing and marketing compelling themes, but also how polycube is looking to expand their use of contract designers from their home country of korea to include designers from all around the world so that they can create for a global audience listen download this episode topics covered history of polycube best of galaxy store awards publishing on galaxy store galaxy badge use of stock imagery design workflow diversity and inclusion helpful links polycube facebook - facebook com/friends polycube polycube website - polycube co kr/v2/ polycube instagram - instagram com/polycube_friends/ polycube youtube - youtube com/c/polycubeinc galaxy themes - developer samsung com/galaxy-themes samsung developer program homepage - developer samsung com samsung developer program newsletter - developer samsung com/newsletter samsung developer program blog - developer samsung com/blog samsung developer program news - developer samsung com/news samsung developer program facebook - facebook com/samsungdev samsung developer program instagram - instagram com/samsung_dev samsung developer program twitter - twitter com/samsung_dev samsung developer program youtube - youtube com/samsungdevelopers samsung developer program linkedin - linkedin com/company/samsungdevelopers tony morelan linkedin - linkedin com/in/tony-morelan transcript note transcripts are provided by an automated service and reviewed by the samsung developers web team inaccuracies from the transcription process do occur, so please refer to the audio if you are in doubt about the transcript tony morelan 00 01 hey, i'm tony morelan and this is the samsung developers podcast, where we chat with innovators using samsung technologies, award winning app developers and designers, as well as insiders working on the latest samsung tools welcome to season three, episode two on today's show, i'm joined by derrick lee, content manager at polycube winners of the 2021 best of galaxy store award for best steam collection not only do we chat about their approach to designing and marketing, amazing themes, but also how polycube is looking to expand their use of contract designers from their home country of korea to include designers from all around the world so that they can create for a global audience enjoy hey, derrick, it is great to have you on the podcast derrick lee 00 51 hello, tony it's, it's great to see you thank you for having me tony morelan 00 55 so i like to start the podcast with who is derrick lee? derrick lee 00 59 um, well, i'm a person who appreciates and enjoys all forms of art, like paintings, digital graphics, music, everything i actually majored in industrial designing myself and i also love singing you know, as i said, all forms of art, tony morelan 01 13 i had no idea that you had a big appreciation for, for art and for music i actually do myself derrick lee 01 19 well, i see a guitar i see several guitars behind it right now yeah tony morelan 01 23 and the folks listening to this it's only for their audio but yes, we've got some cameras, derrick can see i've got a few guitars in the background i like to pretend that i know how to sing but still have yet to get the courage to actually sing in front of somebody so yeah, great to hear that you have that appreciation in that ability yeah, derrick lee 01 41 i'm not that good at singing either i just love it tony morelan 01 42 that's awesome that's awesome so derrick, you are a content manager at polycube tell me a little bit about that role derrick lee 01 50 well, that role is essentially giving out guidelines for designers coming up with something good visually, i think it could be better if somebody is giving out guidelines on which designs can you know resonate with people a little bit more, not just with themselves that's my role at polycube tony morelan 02 05 my background is really in graphic design okay, that's where i spent much of my career and i've worked with many art directors so it sounds like even though you call yourself a content manager to me, it sounds like that role really fits that art director derrick lee 02 20 role yeah, well, anyway, you can call it yeah tony morelan 02 24 so how long have you been at polycube? derrick lee 02 26 um, i have been at polycube for about three years now tony morelan 02 29 just about the same amount of time that i've been at samsung oh, okay so you had said that you that you majored in industrial design interesting i actually minored in industrial design okay okay, so we've got a few similarities, not just in music and singing but also with industrial design yes, we do i understand that coming out of college, you didn't just dive right into tech that you actually were selling donuts from a truck? derrick lee 02 57 yeah, i have been selling donuts for about, i think about 18 months and i really enjoyed it you know, don't get me wrong i didn't quit doing that, because i didn't like it but i really wanted to be involved in a design business in any way, shape, or form sure that's something i wanted to do more and i figured out that, you know, polycube was a company that was designing themes, and i thought it could be exciting so i jumped in that's great tony morelan 03 21 so now polycube is from seoul correct that's where your headquarters is? yes and that's where i'm assuming that's where you live? derrick lee 03 28 yeah, i live like 20 minutes away and it's a beautiful city, i hope in the future when there are no barriers such as covid-19 i hope our supporters all around the world can visit for a nice trip tony morelan 03 39 so you're in seoul, korea, but your english sounds so good i can tell you must have spent some time in the in the states here well, derrick lee 03 47 when i was five years old, my dad got a job in the states in new orleans, actually and we lived there for about nine years wow and then even after i came back to korea, i you know, i stayed in korea for a year and then in new orleans for a year and i've been going back and forth but in korea, military surfaces mandatory i stayed here for two years and then i started selling donuts as i mentioned earlier, so yeah, it's been a while and now covid yeah, so i've been staying in korea for a while but yeah, i do miss new orleans tony morelan 04 18 so i'm guessing that your love for music probably came a bit out of your time in new orleans derrick lee 04 24 oh, yeah, definitely i love jazz i love you know, stevie wonder cars, though those were the those were the artists that really, you know, you know, set a fire inside me yeah tony morelan 04 35 oh, that's great that's great now i was fortunate that actually a few months before covid hit i actually went out to seoul korea because that is where samsung's headquarter this so i got to spend a week there absolutely beautiful city so much to explore, but boy do i want to get back there was a lot that i did not see derrick lee 04 54 i would like to be your guide if you happen to come again one day yeah, tony morelan 04 58 i'll take you up on it for sure so, so about polycube, the company itself, they've been around for quite a while and i know that they do much more than just theme so tell me a bit about the history of poly q? and what are some of those areas that they also work on? derrick lee 05 12 you know, we have quite a history and actually 2021 was our 20th anniversary wow, we came a long way developing apps, making games and designing themes, watch faces and whatnot yeah, tony morelan 05 24 in the name polycube, i'm wondering, is there an interesting story behind that name? derrick lee 05 29 um, well, our founder wanted a name that emphasizes the importance of diversity in a group and if you look at the etymology of poly, you know, it means many sided sure so our founder thought that it was a perfect name cube was added, because, you know, if you look at the cube the shape and as it also has many sides, you know, you have to have many sides to form a cube, right so that's how poly and cube got together and formed the named polycube, you had mentioned that you do more than just themes well, we also make a lot of games, you know, one that we're really working on these days is a game called poker master it has been around, but we're trying to, you know, find rooms for improvement sure tony morelan 06 06 to update the game so that more people can enjoy it now, is that game on the galaxy store at the moment? yes, it derrick lee 06 13 is excellent and we're, we're trying to make it better and better, and has been around for a while, but we're trying to improve it all the time sure and we also design themes and watch faces, we're really trying to improve our watch face designs these days so i hope you know it will get bigger and bigger tony morelan 06 29 yeah, i was checking out some of your designs earlier i love the very classic feel of many of your designs derrick lee 06 35 that means a lot coming from you because you're a designer yourself tony morelan 06 39 thank you thank you that's actually how i got my start with samsung for those that don't know how, okay, when i was doing my graphic design gig started designing watch faces selling them on the galaxy store okay, got noticed by a few people at samsung made a few phone calls and before you know it, i was working for samsung teaching how to design watch faces, derrick lee 06 59 then that really means a lot coming from you tony morelan 07 03 polycube, i think it's you said it's about 30 employees derrick lee 07 07 well, 31 exactly and we have 11 designers among those 31 employees okay, tony morelan 07 13 now, are these split between full time employees? and are some contractors, you have derrick lee 07 18 full time employees and contractors altogether? 31 okay, and all of our 11 designers are all full, they work full time tony morelan 07 26 wow okay, that's great so, you know, i know a lot of designers and developers listen to this podcast always looking for opportunities to, you know, look for new work okay, by any chance is polycube looking for new designers, derrick lee 07 39 we are actually planning on recruiting a lot of designers from abroad sure, starting this year, because we want diversity in our group i guess the best way is you can look us up because we have a website but also, you can send an email, the email addresses master at polycube co kr okay and if you send an email anytime we will take a close look at it and yeah, we'll pay attention tony morelan 08 04 that's awesome so what is the web address for polycube? derrick lee 08 07 oh, it's very simple it's www dot polycube co kr got it and that's p o l y c u b e very simple tony morelan 08 16 how long would you say polycube has been designing themes? derrick lee 08 19 paula cube has been designing themes for about six years now because we started on 2016 tony morelan 08 26 so six years, i would guess that you were probably one of the first theme designers to get onto the platform so how did the people that polycube first learn about the opportunity to design themes for samsung and sell them on the galaxy store? derrick lee 08 39 you know, we were just normal galaxy phone users at first and you know, we naturally just got to know about themes on our phones, because we were using our phones, obviously and we kind of had some time to sit down together and talk about it because we thought we could really jump into and make a business out of it tony morelan 08 57 yeah, you know, it's funny, every designer that i have interviewed on the podcast, has said the same story that they were first just a user and you know, saw the opportunity to customize their own phone and they thought well heck, i could do this myself so what about some of the other areas of theme designing? are you guys also selling you know, wallpapers, aods, icon packs, things like that? derrick lee 09 17 yes everything you just you just said right now we do sell wallpapers, icon packs yeah, aods tony morelan 09 25 so last year, we had the 2021 best of galaxy store award show and polycube was the recipient of the best theme collection award yes, we were tell me what that meant to you and your company for winning that award? well, first derrick lee 09 42 of all, of course, we are very grateful for the awards and this award is to us is something that really started such a positive momentum for us because ever since we got the news that we were winning the award, we are feeling you know, we actually feel a positive momentum that started from that board so it's something that started such a positive momentum for us tony morelan 10 03 that's great yeah and you're a truthfully your collection is amazing i do sit on the board of the folks here at samsung, they get to vote on the winners yeah, i was very happy to see you win the well-deserved award for best thing collection oh, in what ways? have you promoted winning the award? derrick lee 10 21 through, you know, the mainstream social media such as youtube, facebook, instagram? yeah, we're everywhere tony morelan 10 27 are you using galaxy store badges to help promote what you do at polycube? derrick lee 10 32 we are always looking for chances to utilize our galaxy badge everywhere we can use it because it's a good system, you know, the galaxy badge, all you have to do is just click on it and then you can take a look at our you know, collection of themes tony morelan 10 43 sure and when it comes to discoverability, what are some of the platform some of the techniques that you guys do, just to help people find polycube out there in the in the world? derrick lee 10 52 we have, we do have links that lead to our facebook and instagram page and all of the descriptions and the themes that we publish tony morelan 10 59 so you had mentioned youtube, and i know that that is one of the best tools that designers are using to help promote their work so i'm assuming then you guys are creating videos derrick lee 11 09 yeah, we are creating videos i don't have the exact number with me right now but i think we have more than 4000 videos tony morelan 11 16 that's great and then you're leveraging those videos also on platforms like instagram yes, we are now you had mentioned facebook, tell me what is the best way for people to find your facebook page? derrick lee 11 26 well, it's www facebook com/friends poly cube tony morelan 11 32 yeah, that's easy i love that polycube friends thank you you know, when i started my company for doing themes and watch faces, i added the word buzz to the end so you could find my instagram axeirbuzz derrick lee 11 44 buzz? buzz? okay, that's a positive vibe to it tony morelan 11 47 so polycube friends, is that pretty much the handle that you'll use across other platforms? so like on instagram? yes, it is yes now you had mentioned 4000 videos, but i know you guys have a lot more when it comes to themes what would you say? your total theme count is right now, derrick lee 12 01 in total, we published 6387 themes tony morelan 12 05 that's crazy what would you say are the total downloads that you have on those 6000 themes? derrick lee 12 10 about 25 million? tony morelan 12 13 that's crazy i was excited when i got to my first million downloads i'm a long ways away from 25 it's very humbling when we think about it with that many themes, i'm sure that you're starting to look at different topics, different areas so you can see really what is resonating with the with the customer base? what are some of those categories that you would say your themes fall under? derrick lee 12 34 um, we're always looking for diversity in our designs, but there are some categories that really resonate with people more than others for example, design skulls, and butterflies and flowers i think those are, you know, some themes that really resonate with people a lot, you know, regardless of country, regardless of gender tony morelan 12 54 yeah, i noticed i saw one of your themes was school, but it was a steampunk school and i love steampunk i love that look derrick lee 13 02 oh, yeah, i think i know which one you're talking about tony morelan 13 05 yeah, that's, that's a great theme so outside of some of those areas, seasonal wise i mean, do you see like, importance to design themes related to holidays or two seasons? derrick lee 13 15 oh, definitely is especially christmas and halloween i think those are two holidays that really, i'm sure really boost the market, if you will i wish there were more designs on like mardi gras since i'm from new orleans yeah, but halloween and christmas are you know, the two holidays? tony morelan 13 32 yeah, i've heard that from many other folks as well great times to be stylizing your phone for sure derrick lee 13 38 yes, yes, it is tony morelan 13 41 so you know polycube, had a lot of success and you know, it's obviously this wasn't overnight, because you've been doing it for a while but tell me was there like one sort of pivotal moment in your history that you were like, oh, my gosh, this really is starting to take off? or was it truthfully, just a gradual growth that you've done over the years? derrick lee 13 57 it was gradual, to a certain extent but when we first started to actually design themes and tried to make a business out of it, the first six months, i don't think we weren't getting a lot of downloads to downloads that we were expecting and, you know, the support that we were expecting, i mean, of course, we had some, you know, very good supporters that, you know, kept us kept us going when we weren't getting the results that we wanted but after six months, we were seeing the growth when it comes to numbers when it comes to you know, this porters and things like that tony morelan 14 29 yeah, i know and speaking with a lot of other designers, i mean, it takes an investment and time before you start to see really any in any bit of return some of that comes to just getting your name out there and it's not just publishing your themes, your watch faces on galaxy store, but it's that additional marketing that you do so, you know, once you put some time into your instagram or into your facebook page yes that's when you start to see the return yes, definitely so you've got a lot of designers on hand yes where are they? designers getting their ideas derrick lee 15 02 first, our designers, you know, just come up with literally a sketch on their notebooks with their pens but also, where we get ideas is from the reviews, ah, our supporters all around the world, they are not just helping by supporting, they are actually really helping out through reviews, because when we read them, they really offer some great ideas and insights tony morelan 15 20 got it so when people are posting comments after they've purchased one of your themes, you guys are really looking at those comments to think like, okay, what could we either, you know, expand on this topic? or maybe the comment is, and this one isn't really for me, and then maybe your team, you'll start to look in other areas? derrick lee 15 35 yeah, well, you know, sometimes the reviews are very specific it's not just i like it, why i don't like it there are a lot of reviews that say, i don't like it, but i would like it if it was this, if it was that those are the reviews that really give us really good ideas that's great tony morelan 15 50 to hear so a lot of companies leverage stock photography, when it comes to creating their designs, yes which i know can kind of be a hot topic, because truthfully, you know, there's licensing that that gets involved whenever you're using stock imagery and also the reality that that anybody can go and, you know, purchase a certain stock image and build a theme out of it but what are you guys doing to help set yourself apart when you are leveraging stock imagery, derrick lee 16 18 of course, there are a lot of good sources out there that can be utilized and be modified, integrate themes but as you just said, there are some, some issues when it comes to just, you know, using those stock imagery and turning them into themes, right so we have a whole team that really looks into the licensing parts to prevent any legal issues, if you will and we have designers that really keep that in mind that you just don't take the stock imagery, and just copy that and just put it in your phone and that doesn't really make a theme, you know, we go through plenty modifying and we add ideas to it and, you know, all of a sudden, it's not just that stock imagery, it's something totally different tony morelan 16 57 that's great i've actually spoken with many other theme designers on the podcast, and they've all said the same thing that, you know, they leverage the use of stock imagery, but they take those images and build them into an image that is their own that is something that is unique yes, yes so you had mentioned pencil sketching, so tell me what the workflow is i mean, do you are your designers actually traditionally grabbing pencil and paper and, and starting to sketch some of their concepts? derrick lee 17 23 yeah, it's 2022 but that's, that's still where it starts, you know, first, you know, they literally come up with a sketch with a pen or a pencil and then we actually have a meeting, we look at all those sketches, and we discuss which ones we will actually go for yeah, once the designs materialize, we sit down again, and discuss whether there's room for improvement, or revising and then after that, we publish them in hope that our supporters enjoy them tony morelan 17 48 that is excellent to hear you know, in my experience, as a designer, i would often tell other designers that yes, that is the first step is to grab pencil and paper because you don't get caught up in all the tools that you know, software allows you to do or limits you to do you don't get caught up in colors or specific, you know, shapes that may be in the way you truthfully see the skeleton of the design and if that skeleton works, then you know, it's something that's worth pursuing yeah, yeah great to hear that the that you guys take that approach to design? so you know, the process of starting with sketch and then going through meetings and developing the designs all the way to publishing? how long do you think that typically takes your team to do? derrick lee 18 31 um, from just a sketch on a notebook? to an actual theme? i would say one theme takes four days, maybe five? tony morelan 18 39 i would say that's a pretty quick, aggressive timeline sometimes it would take me weeks to do derrick lee 18 45 yeah, because we don't want you know, we don't want to keep our supporters waiting so sure you work hard tony morelan 18 50 what applications are you using when you are doing your design work? adobe derrick lee 18 55 photoshop, adobe illustrator and after effect, oh, tony morelan 18 58 so after effects for doing videos, okay yeah are you doing any animated like wallpapers where you're leveraging motion graphics? derrick lee 19 06 yeah, we actually have a whole there's a team that really focuses on only the video parts, okay, the animation parts that really help out if another team comes up with the sketch shirt and you know, the basis then, you know, there is another whole team designing team that really helps out with sophisticated designing when it comes to the videos tony morelan 19 25 okay, okay that's great so i know a lot of designers utilize the strategy of free when it comes to marketing, their apps so tell me about your experience well, what's your strategy when it comes to free themes free? watch faces? derrick lee 19 42 yeah, we are offering free themes every week, and we promote them every friday and i think our supporters deserve free themes you know, sure, every once in a while and you know, if you check out our facebook and instagram page, you'll see that there are actually quite a lot of opportunities to get some awesome themes for free yeah, tony morelan 19 59 i think that i think that that's great i know what i teach typically is that it's nice to offer up a free app a free design but you don't want to inundate the market with too many of your free yeah, themes free watch faces because then everyone's going to expect that there's always going to be some good free stuff out there so use it as a way to encourage the community to get to try out your stuff, your themes, and then that way, they're more inclined and more trustworthy to actually put money behind some of their purchases and buy some of your items, derrick lee 20 30 especially for people who never, you know, use the theme before, but you want them to really get to know what a theme is, you know, why theme is exciting to have a theme on your phone, tony morelan 20 40 let's talk about some of the challenges because i know you know; this whole market is not as easy as just creating something nice and posting it so what are some of the challenges that you face when it comes to designing themes and marketing those themes? derrick lee 20 55 we hope that our themes satisfy as many people as possible globally, because themes are global but sometimes figuring out how the taste like differs depending on cultures and countries, it's not it's not the easiest thing to do you know, we come up with one design, but people here like it, but people there don't we are greedy, if you will, in a positive way we want to satisfy as many people as possible globally so that's not so that would be a challenge tony morelan 21 21 of course yeah no, that is that is and i know that a lot of times designers are leveraging the ability to have localization for their app so this is where you know, you're selling the theme globally but you can say, you know, in the us market, this is what the description looks like in you know, a market in asia, this is what the description looks like or in germany yes, i know that, you know, designers do see a nice increase in revenue when they are utilizing localization so i'm assuming are you guys using that feature as derrick lee 21 49 well? yes, we are the descriptions look all different, depending on the country, the language, you had mentioned tony morelan 21 55 covid earlier? obviously, we still are in the middle of covid how has that impacted polycube, derrick lee 22 01 of course, covid-19 is very negative but for us, it has done nothing but booster motivation, because covid-19 stopped people from expressing themselves through their faces by making them wear masks right so sure, we were more motivated to help to help people express themselves on their phones instead, through well designed customized themes tony morelan 22 21 you know, that was nice to hear it's something i hadn't really thought about that yes, the face is being covered by your mask so how else can you express? you know, your look your style? yeah and that's where people are customizing their phones, obviously, to represent themselves? derrick lee 22 37 yeah, because nowadays, i think your phone is your second face, for sure it shows who you are tony morelan 22 42 so what is in the future for public cube, derrick lee 22 45 you know, we are actually planning to come up with some very innovative designs that have never been applied to themes before you know, if you look at themes, of course, there is diversity, you know, you can see all sorts of designs in the themes market but sometimes, you know, you run into some designs that make you think that oh, this is nice, but it might not look well on themes, but we are trying to break that wall and come up with some very innovative designs that have never been applied to teams before nice tony morelan 23 15 i'm really looking forward to seeing what polycube produces out of that now, you had mentioned diversity and i love everything you've been talking about, like when it comes to diversity with your designs and the global reach for that tell me specifically about polycube, what are you guys doing when it comes to diversity and inclusion? derrick lee 23 34 we are actually planning on recruiting designers from abroad it doesn't matter where you're from sure, you can be from united states you can be canada, you can be from japan, wherever because we don't want to end up stuck in one way of thinking when it comes to designing and promoting yeah, and i think that's, that could be one of the best ways to stop that from happening tony morelan 23 55 sure because i know just culturally wise you know, people from specific cultures just have a way of approaching their designs so to hear that you are looking for designers, you know from other cultures, i think is a great way to ensure that that you really are offering up great work globally yeah, thank you so you know there are a lot of other theme designers out there a lot of companies have had success is there one company that really comes to mind when you think of a theme designer that you really like derrick lee 24 27 i think that a company called echo visuals yes yeah if you check out their themes they're excellent and we took a lot of inspiration from them tony morelan 24 35 yeah no i've heard that from many designers echo visuals does amazing work and i know that they are very active on facebook and other social media platforms really doing a lot of stuff around marketing so just another good example of how a company does more than just create their things but they have to do all that work behind the marketing yeah so i know you sound very passionate when it comes to your work at polycube but what is you do outside of polycube to have a little fun well, derrick lee 25 04 i obviously love themes, but i don't think about them 24/7 i need some time off to you know, re-energize myself i trained jujitsu do yeah, i actually had a dream of becoming a commentator in mixed martial arts really? yeah, um, you know, that never came to fruition, obviously, but i'm still a fan of the sport i really follow it and it doesn't just help physically it helps mentally which ultimately leads to better productivity tony morelan 25 32 i love hearing that aspect of it you know, for me, i do a lot of cycling now okay and it's not so much for the exercise part of it it's the mental side of getting out eating away being unplugged, either taking in the sights or enjoying the, you know, the fresh air derrick lee 25 49 yeah, i totally understand one last tony morelan 25 50 question for you derrick lee 25 51 okay tony morelan 25 53 what is your favorite donut? derrick lee 25 55 my favorite donut? um well, i always go with the classics chocolate donut scores yeah, well, not just with donuts, like with i think that's just how i am with anything i always go with the classic like hamburgers like everything i always like the original yeah and actually, do you know what being aids are? no, i don't know it's, it's kind of i wouldn't call it a donut but some people do call it call them donuts yeah, it's something that you can have when you come to new orleans oh, i'll tony morelan 26 25 have to give that a try is there anything unique to korea when it comes to donuts? derrick lee 26 30 i'll get to korea when anything comes to korea like what when pizza first came to korea? sure you know, it was a long time but korea like really likes you know, making 1000 flavors of pizzas 1000 flavors of hamburgers 1000 flavors of everything yeah ice creams yeah so yeah, i think that could be one thing that you can enjoy if you know people from abroad, travel korea, you know, there are things that you wouldn't have imagined tony morelan 26 58 how funny that you say that so when i was in korea, i remember going to a restaurant that it was strictly cakes it was like you said it was like 1000 different cakes and you would go in there and walk through all the showcases of everything and then you would pick your slice and it was amazing derrick lee 27 15 yeah, i can't even imagine like what flavors it has it was a tony morelan 27 19 dream but hey, derrick, i really appreciate you taking the time it was great to chat with you i'm looking forward to 2022 to see what more polycube does when it comes to creating beautiful designs? no okay, thank you closing 27 33 looking to start creating for samsung, download the latest tools to code your next app, or get software for designing apps without coding at all sell your apps to the world on the samsung galaxy store check out developer samsung com today and start your journey with samsung tony morelan 27 48 the samsung developers podcast is hosted by tony morelan and produced by jeanne hsu
Learn Developers Podcast
docseason 3, episode 4 previous episode | episode index | next episode this is a transcript of one episode of the samsung developers podcast, hosted by and produced by tony morelan a listing of all podcast transcripts can be found here host tony morelan senior developer evangelist, samsung developers instagram - twitter - linkedin guest chris benjaminsen, frvr games, galaxy store chris benjaminsen, founder of frvr, the super successful game publisher with over 70 titles on samsung services not only do we chat about monetization and game revenue strategies, but how the frvr platform has allowed them to scale their global reach all music from today's show is from frvr games, composed by rasmus hartvig listen download this episode topics covered frvr publishing on galaxy store marketing discoverability monetization generating revenue in-app purchase iap in-app advertising iaa interstitial ads galaxy badge best of galaxy store awards acquiring games/studios diversity and inclusion helpful links frvr - frvr com frvr careers - careers frvr com frvr linkedin - linkedin com/company/frvr frvr youtube - youtube com/c/frvrgames gold train frvr - goldtrain frvr com chris benjaminsen linkedin - linkedin com/in/chrisbenjaminsen/ chris benjaminsen twitter - twitter com/benjaminsen galaxy badges - developer samsung com/galaxy-store/gsb-promotion samsung iap - developer samsung com/iap samsung developer program homepage - developer samsung com samsung developer program newsletter - developer samsung com/newsletter samsung developer program blog - developer samsung com/blog samsung developer program news - developer samsung com/news samsung developer program facebook - facebook com/samsungdev samsung developer program instagram - instagram com/samsung_dev samsung developer program twitter - twitter com/samsung_dev samsung developer program youtube - youtube com/samsungdevelopers samsung developer program linkedin - linkedin com/company/samsungdevelopers transcript note transcripts are provided by an automated service and reviewed by the samsung developers web team inaccuracies from the transcription process do occur, so please refer to the audio if you are in doubt about the transcript tony morelan 00 01 hey, i'm tony morelan and this is the samsung developers podcast, where we chat with innovators using samsung technologies, award winning app developers and designers, as well as insiders working on the latest samsung tools welcome to season three, episode four on today's show, i'm joined by chris benjaminsen, founder of frvr, the super successful game publisher with over 70 titles on samsung services not only do we chat about monetization and game revenue strategies, but how the frvr platform has allowed them to scale their global reach and the music from today's show is from frvr games, all composed by rasmus hartvig, enjoy hey, chris, welcome to the podcast chris benjaminsen 00 50 hey, tony thanks for having me yeah, so tony morelan 00 52 so i'm excited to chat with you because, you know, we've had game developers on the podcast, but never a game publisher let me first ask you though, who is chris benjaminsen? chris benjaminsen 01 02 like? that's a good question like, if i were to define myself, i think there's like two defining characteristics, like one is i must make things and the second one is, i detest repetition so if you come to my place, it's not unlikely i will cook but it's very unlikely i'm cooking something i made before so you know, it might be good might not be good, right? but you know, that, that drives and making things like it, it can be origami, it can be computer games that can be like, doesn't really matter, as long as i'm sort of producing something, and then i really don't like doing things twice right you know, like, anything that's routine is just boring tony morelan 01 41 so you're an explorer, then? chris benjaminsen 01 43 i guess so i guess so yeah tony morelan 01 47 so you're with frvr? what exactly is your role? and what is frvr? chris benjaminsen 01 53 like, like, i'm the i'm the original founder, the company, right? you know, and my role today is mostly around working together with massive companies such as samsung, i lead a team at frvr that does that and if you're, if you were to describe frvr, as a company, we're a platform and a publisher okay, so we have a platform that allows game developers to make fantastic games and with all the services that they need to do to do so basically, anything in between a, a game developer and a consumer, and then we also the publisher, we actually make sure that the games get in front of the right user, and they have an opportunity to play those games tony morelan 02 29 okay, what does frvr stand for? it's an acronym, does it have a deep meaning? chris benjaminsen 02 35 no, it's not like, like, a lot of people are sort of asking us if we have french vr company, which we're not yeah, but, but like, like, if rbis is technically forever, without the vowels okay, you can trademark frvr you can trademark forever, at least, not unless you have apple liberal money, right? so so if we say if i'm yeah, because if you could locally use you sort of the full pronunciation you can actually use the trademark so there's a bunch of stupid rules there tony morelan 03 07 interesting interesting so before we dive into frvr, tell me about your journey what led you into the mobile gaming area, and then specifically into creating frvr, chris benjaminsen 03 17 i've been in the, in the games industry for like, more than 20 years, my first job, sort of professional job ever was to make a real time multiplayer games in javascript and if i'd be honest, my seventh startup in total and my second year, and my third platform company over also have like a long history of sort of building companies in this space and i've been very fortunate i never managed to go bankrupt but one of these companies so far, right, you know, so little bit proud about that tony morelan 03 48 oh, that's great it definitely plays into you know, when you first started, you had said that, you know, you're not going to repeat much so you said seven companies that you've started, chris benjaminsen 03 58 you had all very different companies, and some of them were like, like, like, very small and, and never got successful, anything like that right? it's just like the companies apparently gets bigger and bigger every time i try yeah, there might be there might be new startups in the future as well but for now, if rbis is a very exciting company to work at, and definitely want to want to spend my time tony morelan 04 20 so i know one of those companies you had started you actually, it was a pretty successful company that you ended up selling but you came away with that from with a lot of lessons learned, i would say is that correct? chris benjaminsen 04 33 yeah so like, like, in a previous life, build a platform company that did infrastructure for cash or mobile, social and in that company, there was a lot of people building games on top of our infrastructure and 1000s of developers right and, and there was there's a few significant learnings from that so one was that building a company that just charges other people for services is not a particularly good business, a lot of money was made by the developers on top of our platform where we are not making quite a lot of money so you know, make sure that that you actually participate where, where the value is if you want to be a publisher and then the second learning was that the successful developers were not the ones who had the best at making games, right? so there's, there's not a strong connection between sort of making games that are fun to play and the economic success that those developers were able to see so if you want to be successful in the game space, and this is particularly true in the in the mobile game space, you need to be good at a lot of other things that has nothing to do with game development, such as a user acquisition, and revenue optimization, and data and all these things and that, you know, i don't think there's anything wrong with that but if you are somebody who really loves making kickass games, you're missing the 90% if you also want to be successful at that tony morelan 05 57 it's interesting you say that, you know, i had on the podcast a few weeks ago, peter and tobias from biodome games, they have their game gold digger, frvr yeah and it was peter, who had a great quote, saying that he was chatting with one of his partners, who had said, you know, for once, can you stop trying to be so artistic in your games and just build a game that can be successful? and, you know, we all had a good laugh at that chris benjaminsen 06 23 yeah and, you know, i think all industries are like that, right you know, you probably have to be good at a multitude of different disciplines to be successful but, but the games industry, being one of the most valuable entertainment industry, two worlds is, of course, also one of the most competitive and that competitive landscape it's a very, it's a very hard place for, for most people to compete and, and the market sentiment is sort of dominated by survival bias yeah right you know, like, like, the people who won the lottery yeah you know, like, like an among us are like flappy birds so like these, these small teams that had an outsized hit, right, but that's like winning the lottery good luck with that yeah and tony morelan 07 04 i think a great example of that right now is wordle, in the phenomenon behind that chris benjaminsen 07 08 absolutely fantastic game, right you know, and i like these small puzzle games once in a while to come along i was like, 2048, as well, which was also originally made, i think, by an italian game developer, you know, just as a small example, fantastic, fantastic game as well yeah, tony morelan 07 25 definitely, in kind of going back to, you know, what i mentioned, peter, and tobias, they said that for them, you know, the key to their success was partnering with someone like frvr, so that they could just focus on creating the game and let everybody on your team handle everything that when it comes to publishing and marketing, so i think there's a huge value with where you guys are in this space chris benjaminsen 07 47 i hope so like, that's what we're trying to do we're trying to allow developers focusing on making fantastic games and then we took care of all the nitty gritty details of making those games available and i think we published the 39 platforms and then while also helping those developers make sure that the right users come into the games yeah, yeah because it's not it's not only just about the volume of people who play a game, it's more important to make sure that the right user plays the game sure, to get the kind of games that i like, it's not necessarily the kind of games that you like, right, for tony morelan 08 17 sure so let's talk a bit about the history how long has frvr been in existence? chris benjaminsen 08 22 so i think i think technically, they were written, sort of in the integration of the company was founded in must be 2016 okay and their written version of frb apps was decided to be the biggest, baddest lifestyle company you have ever heard of, and sort of sort of allowed me to go and travel the world without having to worry about expenses and it did that it did that very well like, very successfully however, like i'd had a corporate job in corporate america, i had moved to san francisco at this point in my life after having sold a previous company and i sort of managed to convince myself that everything that was wrong with my life was working it turned out everything that was wrong with my life was working for corporate america and it took me it took me like three weeks and a whole bunch of success to realize that and decide, oh, wow, there's a big opportunity here in what inevitably came if ivr that exists today yeah, i teamed up with a guy called brian meidell they joining co-founder came in and we started sort of getting serious about the company a few years after the original founding tony morelan 09 28 and it was brian actually, who had told peter, hey, for once, put artistic stuff aside and let's focus on you know, how to be successful here chris benjaminsen 09 36 yeah and like he's a fantastic executor right, you know, and that's, like, due to building big teams and sort of running productions a lot of repetition stuff i don't like right, yes really good at that tony morelan 09 48 that's great so how many employees are at frvr? chris benjaminsen 09 52 yeah, so i think we are 130 now so as of today, but yeah, like we find ourselves in a situation right now, where we are onboarding around 11 new people a month, so you're growing? yeah, every time you ask that question, the number would have changed? tony morelan 10 08 no, are these people are you focused in one headquarters? are you guys you know, all around the globe? chris benjaminsen 10 13 we have most of our people in in lisbon in portugal and that's predominantly where we are focusing on hiring okay, you know, post covid, the world has changed and, you know, we absolutely accept that some people want to be wherever it is they want to be so we also we also have offices in denmark, we have offices in united kingdom and we have a small office in malta as well, and a small office in spain so we have we have sort of different opportunities for people who wants to work in an office got it and then the majority of people are now in in disband portugal and that's also where we are mostly doing a tony morelan 10 50 hiring you yourself, though you are in the uk is that correct? yeah, i'm chris benjaminsen 10 53 in london, right? you know, i get to i get to be a special snowflake and decide where i want to live so i live in tony morelan 11 01 wonderful now under the frvr brand how many game studios do you guys have that you're working with? chris benjaminsen 11 07 we are publisher right? you know, so? we i think presently we work with around 20 okay, yeah other studios, right? so it's a non-insignificant amount but we have high aspirations, we want to get to a place where we can work with hundreds, if not 1000s of developers sure to do fantastic things tony morelan 11 28 so how many monthly players? do you get playing frvr games on all channels? chris benjaminsen 11 34 i get to it various, right like, like a lot of our success comes from viral traffic right okay so active users can range from i got a really bad month, 50 million to get month where we were we peek into, like, like 100 plus million mark wow, tony morelan 11 50 monthly active users that's crazy yeah, it's chris benjaminsen 11 53 a lot of people so far, i think like, like it's a number we track we think we've had around 1 6 billion absolute unique for the lifetime of the company tony morelan 12 03 wow and that is just in you know, you said the 2016 was the start of frvr chris benjaminsen 12 09 have you? i failed to remember it might have been 15 right but yeah, like plus minus a year sure tony morelan 12 16 so now let's talk about samsung and galaxy store with frvr, what are some of the popular titles that you guys offer on galaxy store? chris benjaminsen 12 24 so particularly on the galaxy store, like we have, i think we have like 12 games live, their most notice would be it's called tigger, frvr which, which is built by peter and team and then we have sort of our higher end games like a basketball and a hex and however, we do work with samsung in other ways, as well, they have this instance type product as well, where we are also present and we have i don't know; i think we've done like seven or eight different integration with samsung along the year so we are sort of everywhere on a samsung phone, including the galaxy appstore tony morelan 12 57 okay, so not just the galaxy app store but there's other different platforms that samsung offers frvr is involved in chris benjaminsen 13 04 yeah, so we work with, we work with samsung about building an experience in our first integration with what's in the product called bixby minus one home screen so when you swipe left on your on your phone, like we will be wearing, we had a cart where there was sort of quick links to our games, okay, we build an instant games type product together with samsung, we work quite a lot of that together and we have our games live there we also have integrations with the with the browser and like we exploring, basically, a big part of what frvr is, rather than trying to drag the user to where we want them to be, say, a mobile app store, we try to take the model and turn it inside out and bring people great games wherever they have already decided to want to be because it's very costly to drag a user somewhere else, right tony morelan 13 50 i see so if they're already there, you want to make your game available to them chris benjaminsen 13 54 yeah, yeah it's like, you know, if you're, if you're starbucks, right, people won't care if you can only get it in the airport, you actually have to be on a street corner close to where people sort of walk around, otherwise nobody is ever going to drink their coffee tony morelan 14 05 yeah, that's true that's true so how did this relationship with samsung for start? chris benjaminsen 14 10 we met samsung at a at a conference and they were like, can you give us games in like, four months? i think was the was the original question and we got the games to them in two days so wow so the answer was yes yeah tony morelan 14 24 that's a great way to start the relationship oh, yeah so why would you say it's important to offer your game on galaxy store? chris benjaminsen 14 31 like, again, you know, that those users there who love the galaxy store, and we want to have our games available to those users in that space and galaxy store is actually well performing? right you know, it's a samsung product and samsung phones are very high-end devices generally it's very, not only is it it's great to meet a consumer where they are they are also very high value users when people are playing from the front of samsung galaxy app store tony morelan 14 54 yeah, in what ways would you say galaxy store has helped you promote frvr games chris benjaminsen 14 59 for is the organic installs a fairly competent product? and it has all the features you would expect as a game developer, right? you know, so, so great access to in app purchases, great access to notifications, great access to distribution, right but we've also, we also really enjoyed working together with the samsung galaxy team and we have, like, among other things, we have an frvr category in the galaxy store that sort of exclusive to us it's only our games oh, no, no and we work together on seasonal featuring and to give feedbacks to us, you know, saying, hey, we think it would be fantastic if we could do some something around easter, for instance and then we go and work on that together and sort of find a, a process that works well together for both of us tony morelan 15 42 that's great and i'm sure that banner promotions are part of that is that chris benjaminsen 15 45 yeah, banner promotion, and i can promotions and like there's a lot of tools that samsung has in the toolbox to help out right? yeah and then we also push on the galaxy team to do more like we, we've sent a lot of feedback on the on the back-end tools and things like that and fantastically, it has impact, like we get better product right so for us, that's a fantastic partnership tony morelan 16 09 yeah and that's one of the things that actually pulled me into working for samsung was how open they were to feedback in wanting to improve their platform fantastic you know, you'd mentioned gold digger, frvr those are the guys they won our 2021 best of galaxy store award for best instant play game awesome game awesome guys, we were so happy to give that award tell me what it did mean for frvr to have one of your games win a best of galaxy store award? chris benjaminsen 16 37 it's a privilege, right? you know, and the credit goes to the game developer, they made that game? yeah right you know, we supported them along the way and, and of course, came with a lot of feedback and help them with technical issues and things like that but at the end of the day, you know, we have to be honest about the fact that the great games are made by the great developers, right, and also, as a platform publisher, provide the tools to make that a possibility but games are fundamentally a creative endeavor and you need massively traded people to make to make those games sure i'm, i'm a game developer myself as well, right you know, and i'm almost more proud of some of the games i've built and, you know, the very successful company that and if rbis, right, you know, because, you know, so it's sort of like an expression of something where you sat down and said, here's the thing i want to create, and now i've gotten it out right and i think to be as impede completely deserves getting that, that recognition from galaxy tony morelan 17 35 yeah success for a game definitely revolves around revenue tell me as far as frvr, what has been your strategy for generating revenue? chris benjaminsen 17 46 like so so from a, from a technical side, right, you know, we try to we try to make all avenues of generating revenue available in our platform, right so that means interstitial-based advertisement, it means reward the best advertisement? it means in app purchases, it means subscriptions it actually does not mean, banner advertisement, we don't do that because i don't like it no, really but you know, yeah, other than that, like, like, we sort of have all the technical capabilities, and then what we find and what we try to optimize for, it's not revenue, we try to optimize for engagement okay and there's a multitude of reasons for that, like so so like, one is the fact that i can't remember the specific number, but it's more than 90% of all value that is captured in the game is made by people who play the game more than once yeah, right you really want to have these long engagements with people, right and another fairly simple reason is it's a lot easier to take a game that has huge engagement, and turn it into a good business than it is to take a game with a with a strong monetization model and turn it into a great game right? so fundamentally, everything we focus on all our kpis, all our visions, and missions are around building experiences that people want to engage with for a long time and then revenue is something that happens as a result, they're off, rather than being sort of a driving factor and because we are good at distribution it because we, we are not sort of participating in the race to the bottom that is cost positive user acquisition on app stores, we can take the privilege that it is to be less aggressively monetizing than some of our competitors tony morelan 19 22 yeah, yeah so let's talk about some of the specifics here, when it comes to, you know, different ways to generate revenue you know, there's developers out there that may just be getting started in this space and so i want to help explain what some of those are so ip is in app purchase, kind of explain, like what is in app purchase chris benjaminsen 19 39 so new in app purchases, if you can somehow convince a user to pay for something in the game, right, you know, and, and how they pay it's actually quite different across the world so northern europe or usa, right? america has a distributor for a credit card, okay but if you're talking about a consumer in india, it's typically through a gift card or something like that why? they've gone into install and sort of funded a wallet, right but the fact of the matter is, what essentially ends up happening is you have you have an experience in your game that the user feels is worth the value of paying for and again, you know, like, like, like talking about engagement in games, right? why would a user be willing to, to sort of exchange money for something in a game? and that's typically related to the user's expectation of also playing this game two weeks from now? right? yes, they're investing yeah, you're investing in your future experience in this game? right? you know, so so it's another place where this this long-term engagement becomes very important, right? but a lot of times what people are buying are like, simple things, like more lives, or an item, or whatever it is that sort of, and in some of our games that are multiplayer, we even have people playing for things that are purely sort of cosmetic, buying a different hat, because then other people can see the hat that hat, but the hat, the hat has no function, right? sure tony morelan 20 57 so it's just being able to create their own identity, you know, within that game, chris benjaminsen 21 02 it's no different than people buying clothes in the real world, you know? tony morelan 21 05 sure, sure so how do you look at your player demographics for getting the best returns on iap? chris benjaminsen 21 10 i? well, first of all, that's a per game thing right? you know, we have, we have games that appeal to 50 plus women and we have games that appeal to like, like, a young male audience right so that's, that's very individualized per game fundamentally, though, there are some there are some core mechanics that always worked really well, if you can proposition a user to, to exchange money for time yeah so something where they can progress faster if they if they put money in is typically a very strong mechanic, regardless of who the consumer is and then, like we do the thing that successful game developers, do, we spend a lot of time looking at data and looking at, you know, what are the flows that leads to a conversion? so somebody's actually putting money into the system? how do we how do we balance those metrics such that we sort of get the most statistical value of, and we use, we use tools such as ad split testing, okay, where you run, run two versions of the game at the same time, and then you measure which one performs better? and then you make that diversion that everybody plays? tony morelan 22 16 yeah, yeah, no, that's great i've heard that that is a pretty important aspect, not just in the gaming industry, but just with, you know, ads and marketing to do a b testing chris benjaminsen 22 26 yeah, we even do something it's called multi variant testing, right and we should not go into the details, but it becomes very complex very quickly tony morelan 22 33 sure, sure so what other mobile game monetization models do you consider like, you know, premium paid apps or paid user acquisitions, you had mentioned that chris benjaminsen 22 43 we did experiment a little bit with premium paid apps, but it's a very, it's a very tough market and, and it's not, it's not something where we found a lot of a lot of success, like we generally see more successful, and we can just sort of allow anyone to play the games, and not without having that limitation, right and we do both interstitial based advertisement, which is unprompted and then rewarded video type advertisement, where the user gets a reward for watching an advertisement but when a user sort of opts to watch an ad, right, you know, so you could imagine that, so this tony morelan 23 14 is during gameplay, there would be a moment where then a video would play, and they would watch that chris benjaminsen 23 18 yeah so a simple example could be you know, that you have just died yeah and you can revive by watching an advertisement and not paying a coin okay right so giving the user the choice between, say, watching an advertisement and spending a bit of time versus spending a bit of their money, right, you know, so and it's a very high value format because the user has elected to watch an advertisement so you know, the users there, yes, you know, they're engaged and they're just sitting there waiting, right? so advertisements are typically willing to pay a high price for that type of advertising tony morelan 23 54 and you'd mentioned interstitial ads so explain what that is for someone who's new to game development? chris benjaminsen 24 00 yeah so it's a bit like to have to get on television so something is happening on your screen, and then suddenly does an advertisement and something else is happening, right? you know, so it's an ad that is that is shown to the user, like interstitial technically means an advertisement that runs before something starts, right but it's used interchangeably in the games industry to mean like an ad before something starts on ad in the middle of something on that after something happened okay, we try to be cautious of using those type of advertisements sort of out of order like we don't want to interrupt a user while they're playing yeah so we will typically only put those in so like, for whatever reason, your game session has ended, and you have just elected to press play again and that's where we would put in those type of advertisements you do have games out there, which are you can imagine you're playing a solitaire game and then put an ad pops up in the middle of it right and you have to sit down wait till you can continue your game and we try to stay away from that tony morelan 24 55 i see i see what about subscriptions have you guys read any subscription models on your games? so, yeah, we've chris benjaminsen 25 00 run a, we run a few experiments here and it's a relatively new area of monetization for us but we have run experiments where our games have been sort of presented as a games club so rather than having advertisement or having, you know, purchases in the game, you can just play them completely for free if you had a subscription through a third party, right and some of our debug games to the kind of stuff we're building now definitely lends itself well towards being able to support subscriptions subscriptions to free to play games these days, mostly expresses themselves as season passes so you like buy a season pass subscription, and then you get like, extra rewards while you play for a period of time and then that time period is up and then you know, you can buy the next season pass as well, or continue your subscription or whatever it is, right you know, that's, that's the model of like, a, like a fortnight or those type of games tony morelan 25 52 got it so we've talked about in app purchase, aap, you know, there's another category to monetization called ia, which is in app advertising and i think, under that falls, the, you know, the rewarded videos, these interstitial ads have also heard of something called offer walls can you explain what is an offer wall? chris benjaminsen 26 11 yeah, we actually don't think we have any games library or footballs anywhere but it's, it's basically, you know, you can get a reward in your game for doing another action right? so again, it's user opt in the use of one something and find alpha wallets typically, like extra coins, or whatever in the game and to get a get sort of a list of different options for things they could be doing right now to have some level of value and that can go all the way from, you know, signing up to a website, all the way up to you know, committing yourself to four years of sirius xm radio in the us, oh, really, you know, or whatever right? you know, and as there's different types of reward levels of that, right so but they can be significant, right so like that it's, it's sort of a way for other companies to interact with that consumer and get them to do something that has value to them and date and pay you for that service so it's a bit sort of a direct affiliate program or something like okay, okay yeah okay tony morelan 27 11 interesting so, you know, a lot of what we talked about now have been in game, you know, advertising for monetization so what about paid user acquisition? so actually going out there and advertising for your game? so you guys are active in that area? chris benjaminsen 27 23 not particularly, it's something we are exploring, and it is something that i believe it's going to be very important for the future of frp yeah but historically, it's not something that we done to a huge extent however, it is an area where we actually partner with the samsung galaxy appstore team, where we were looking at what is the best path for somebody who is publishing on the samsung galaxy app store to find sort of pockets of uses that can be that can be purchased right? tony morelan 27 51 okay okay so of all these different ways that we've talked about when it comes to monetization, what would you say is the most effective way in why? chris benjaminsen 28 00 and so there's many answers to that what has been the most successful for frvr suffice advertisement, that has mostly down to the kind of games that we have been building historically and the kind of games we've been building historically has mostly been the result of the capabilities for the platforms, our games has been available on, which, by and large, have not supported in app purchases however, if you were to look at where is the most potential value, it's most definitely in the in-app purchase space, right? like the potential value that you can derive from a single user is larger in app purchases than any other way you can monetize that user, even with subscriptions, right? make some simple math, you know, rewarded video is considered valuable, right but if you have a player, sort of watching 1000 ads a month, that might sort of in the united states be worth $20, or thereabouts, where $20 is not an uncommon average transactions for a central user to spending in app purchases, right and people typically buy more than once sort of the opportunity to create a great business around in app purchases is much higher, and opportunity to create a great business purely from advertisement tony morelan 29 08 got it? what would you say would be some advice that you can give for a developer looking to integrate iap? chris benjaminsen 29 15 like, like, it goes back to what we talked about earlier right? you know, build deep experiences, right? sure for like engagements, yeah, long engagements, and then then allow people to buy something that they, you know, feel like they're going to get value from a long period of time right and i think an important thing there is you must be trustworthy as a developer yeah right you know, like, like, like, the player must trust you to not to screw them over so if you have all kinds of other stuff into games, where they feel cheated, they're not going to give you their money or if you cheat them, they're only going to do it once right? yeah you know, so you actually have to provide something that brings real value to the user otherwise, they're, they're not going to engage with that thing right like they're not, they're not stupid they are very clever tony morelan 29 57 yeah so let's talk about a how you guys go about acquiring games for frvr? what do you look for? chris benjaminsen 30 03 like we look for, for great teams and i think it's important here that we are publisher, right? so we work with developers who take a fair amount of that total risk of building a game sometimes you find the games, right but predominantly, we work with great teams that is passionate about the game that they're working on and that's, that's mostly what we look for okay and then we help though, those developers to go and, and build fantastic games, right but due to the nature of our platform, at least how its structured right? now, you must basically build the game from scratch on top of stuff so so we're not a publisher that can sort of accept a game that somebody's already built, and say, yeah, we'll publish that it's more sort of a cool collaborative co development process, where we work together with developers to create fantastic things that work on top of our platform tony morelan 30 51 you know, i heard somewhere that between 50 to 1000 games are added to the app store's every day so i know it's a huge competition when it comes to games what's your strategy for discoverability? chris benjaminsen 31 03 i like as we talked about, go to the user where they are, rather than trying to drag them to the app store where it's very competitive, right and, like we use, we use all the tricks including branding, like we now have significant volume of people just searching for our games every day, both in app stores and on google, right and i truly did that basic strategy of saying let's bring our games to where the users are, has been very, very successful for us, and allowed us to sort of get in front of all of these consumers without diving deep into cost positive user acquisition and things like that and dental labs though, say they're hyper competitive, it gets very, very hard to get your game there, right and people talk about all of these things like influencer, marketing, and whatever and they don't call it user acquisition, but that's just what it is right? you know, it's just a different way of doing it right you know, it's all of these hacks to try to get in front of the user tony morelan 31 54 so are you using tools like creating promotional trailer videos and posting them on youtube? chris benjaminsen 32 00 we do we do that for some of our debug games, like a game like wells frvr yeah there's like there's a content team that creates content for social media that being you know; youtube and facebook and i think we even have posts on tik tok okay, tony morelan 32 14 so you guys have a ton of experience now, when it when it comes to publishing games? i'm sure you faced a few challenges can you share some stories and how you overcame those challenges? chris benjaminsen 32 24 a lot of our challenges is around scale right? you know, so we have 70 games on 39 platforms right wow and that didn't that in itself is a big number, right? to sort of, sort of manage this, like, that's more than 2000 combinations, almost 3000 combinations, right? we also have all of those games in 20 languages so when you when you sort of factor in those combinations, that's 50,000 combinations, right? and if you want localize screenshots, yeah, that's no way you could do that with humans, right and a lot of ways we try to solve with technology, right? that's what the what the frvr platform does, okay, encapsulate just the complexity of trying to do all of these things into sort of a unified platform and that goes for what is a good experience on the samsung galaxy appstore, like the samsung galaxy appstore has specific capabilities and specific api's and specific sort of things that work particularly well on a platform and if every developer had to consider that for all the platforms we were on, they would be spending none of their time making great games so we encapsulate that complexity into our platform and that's sort of the recipe that makes frvr work that's sort of removing humans from the equation, basically, tony morelan 33 42 that's interesting i mean, i can totally see how you guys are able to scale your reach with having so many games, but you've got quite a team behind so it's not all automated, you still do need to have those employees to support that chris benjaminsen 33 56 yeah, but like, 95% of those people work on the platform, right? to build the to build the infrastructure, right and frvr is also a company that's been growing quite a lot, i think, okay, two years ago, we were we were fewer than 20 people right? so a lot of the people who actually worked at frvr now people who joined us in the last year tony morelan 34 15 so what are some of the trends that you've seen in the in the gaming industry chris benjaminsen 34 19 or hotels that there's a lot of them right you know, there's a like i think the status trend i see is when you have say and among us or a fall guys or a flappy birds come out and be successful, like, like older people who try to get success by just following that recipe right? not realizing that the reasons those game were successful originally were sort of a bit of luck and timing and typically some external factors, like among us grew with discord and discord grew it among us yeah, right and that was sort of sort of the game to play on that platform, right and all the other games in that in that category by and large failed because it was just like it and not again but that right and, and a thing i think a lot of people have forgotten is that the game industry is cyclical, right? so you get a new channel it comes out it's very cheap and easy to get users on it initially and then that's the value of that platform goes up, it just becomes more and more expensive, right and people have sort of forgotten that's how the games industry used to work because mobile came along yeah and stuck around for a very long time to do to sort of these stores that were tied to specific devices right which, which is something you didn't really have on a on a pc, where there was more open competition on who could sort of have an app store tony morelan 35 40 yeah, yeah, for sure so tell me what is in the future for frvr chris benjaminsen 35 45 a lot more high-quality games? like that's basically our focus right now we are very fortunate, we just closed out a round funding wonderful yeah, thank you and like, the entire theme of that funding is we need, we need games of a completely different quality, right? so we are we are looking for fantastic studios who can come in and build games with sort of that depth that can support in app purchases that's the thing that we really want to focus on we want to want to have games that can have people play for years, not just once, right? tony morelan 36 18 yeah so as far vr is seeing this growth, what are you guys doing related to diversity and inclusion? chris benjaminsen 36 26 and we do a lot of things, right, like diversity and inclusion is something that we try to sort of have both across our games and across our company culture, right? so it can be everything from i personally created the hex frvr game so yeah, i got a nice email from somebody said, i love this game, but it can they call us i can see the different things, right so making sure that you're aware of the different kinds of colorblind people can be sure, sure and it also it also means a lot for hiring, like, like, what's the best candidate for the job is not necessarily the person that fits the checklist, the best that you see that you put on your yeah, other requirements yeah, in like diverse teams perform better so diversity is a is a virtue in the hiring process and it can be advantageous to hire the more diverse candidate if you have an opportunity to hire too, and like, but it means a lot like you have to be mindful of it everywhere those like natural biases, right now, a simple example of that is that the more bullet points you put on a on a job post about specific requirements, the less likely it is that females would, will apply for a job interesting, like a male candidate would sort of look at a long bullet point and see two things that good and go, yeah, i could totally do this, right? where if fema will see a long list and sort of say, i can only do two of these things i shouldn't apply for this right so you have to be mindful of those things all the way tony morelan 37 52 interesting yeah, i think giving someone the opportunity to really talk about their personality, and their value is probably the best way to go about finding that that good candidate chris benjaminsen 38 02 yeah and it's a big part of our it's a big part of our sort of, sort of, sort of hiring flow is the values right? you know, we also a, a company in portugal, that doesn't behave like a portuguese company, this particular company, company structure in particular is very hierarchical, right you know, some people might call it a bit old fashioned that's not the company we are, that's not the company we want to be so we want people that resonates with sort of a more flat structure, modern ways of working tony morelan 38 34 wonderful so if someone is interested, either in working for frvr, or their a game studio that want to bring their games to you, what's the best way for them to reach out to frvr? chris benjaminsen 38 45 like, like, send me an email first, right? you know, and, you know, i'll redirect you to the right person, my email is chris@frvr com so it's fairly straightforward, right? like, always happy to chat with people who do fantastic things tony morelan 38 57 yeah, that's great and we'll include links in the show notes too much about what we talked about today and into frvr websites so chris, i got to say, it was great to have you on the podcast i love learning all about frvr and what you guys are doing but let me ask when you're not working for frp or what is it that you'd like to do for fun? chris benjaminsen 39 15 i find most of my spare time is taken up by you know, walking the dog, or, you know, cooking food if it's some like i'm probably not good at cooking food in the winter but you know, like i like to grill outdoors and whatever right you know, and i actually try to keep a fairly strict work life balance wonderful so you know i am one of the people who like go into the office but mostly yes a way to not work while i'm at home tony morelan 39 40 that's great well hey, we're just about to hit the springtime of the year and soon will come summer so i'm sure you're going to enjoy lots of outdoor grilling when the when the season comes chris benjaminsen 39 49 hopefully, you never know where they're somewhere in london right? you know, that might be like two days where it's impossible that's tony morelan 39 56 awesome hey, chris, really appreciate you coming on the podcast today chris benjaminsen 39 59 no, thank do so much for having me closing 40 01 looking to start creating for samsung, download the latest tools to code your next app, or get software for designing apps without coding it all sell your apps to the world on the samsung galaxy store check out developer samsung com today and start your journey with samsung tony morelan 40 17 the samsung developers podcast is hosted by tony morelan and produced by jeanne hsu
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